Nationalist youth hate the polis more than they love their bikes
Celtic fans take to the streets after hearing that the Holy Goalie has left
If you’ve seen News 24 over the past few days, you’ve probably noticed that something strange is afoot in Belfast: everyone’s been infected with the rage virus and started fighting with da cops, employing such deadly weapons as planks, slabs and bikes (decommissioning has hit them hard). What’s going on? Are these people born with an inherent genetic love of fighting? Do they just HATE da poleez?
According to British UK news coverage… YES, all of the above, and more. Never one to take what the television tells us at first hand, Leftfield decided to investigate for itself..
What the rolling news coverage of EXCITING RIOTS neglected to tell us, at least for a good ten minutes anyway, was who these rioters actually were, and what they were so angry about.
Some of you reading this may have heard about a small Protestant family cultural group, renowned for their tourist friendly day events (and promotion of the retail trade): the Orange Order.
The biggest date in the Orange Order calendar is, of course, the 12th of July. In 1690.
Three hundred and twenty years later, they’re still mad keen on marching on that date, celebrating the glorious victory of King William of Orange over the Catholic claim to the throne of England, Scotland and Ireland, at the Battle of Boyne. In 1690.
As it happens, some folk in the North of Ireland aren’t too big on the Orange Order. Even less so when what they see as a Protestant supremacist and anti-Catholic organisation is allowed to parade through Nationalist (and largely Catholic) communities. This is what happened last week, and was what triggered four nights of rioting in Belfast.
What much of the media attention of the rioting neglected to mention was the main spark of the violence: a police attack on a peaceful sit-down protest against an Orange march passing through Ardoyne. As the protesters sat in the road chanting ‘peaceful protest’ and wearing t-shirts proclaiming ‘Residents Not Dissidents’, riot police waded in and began to remove and arrest the local people protesting against an unwelcome Loyalist march in their community. A number of people were injured from police firing deadly rubber bullets into the crowd. While we’ve heard a lot about the mostly relatively minor injuries suffered by police officers, a self-imposed blackout has stopped police-inflicted injuries from the use of rubber bullets from receiving media attention.
In the video below, made by the Irish socialist group Eirigi, you can see footage of what happened:
The mainstream consensus, supported by everyone from the UK media to Sinn Fein to local priests, has been that these protests were orchestrated by near-mythical ‘dissident republicans’, the Continuity IRA and the Real IRA. There’s no doubt that these violent elements will have been seeking to exploit the unrest we’ve seen, but the idea that this pathetic bunch of macho losers could organise a riot is laughable, given that they can’t even tell the difference between Dominos Pizza and the British Army.
The riots must be seen in the context of rocketing youth unemployment and huge economic and social deprivation. Given the provocation of riot police and pissed-up Orangemen invading their community, it’s hardly surprising that hundreds of them used it as an excuse to have a riot. Much has been made of the participation of young children, but if there was a riot on your estate when you were 8, what would you do?
Let’s be clear that it’s not something in the water over in the North – it’s symptomatic of poverty and unemployment combined with divided communities, establishment sectarianism and partition rule. For working class people from all communities, the Good Friday Agreement has not addressed any of these factors – rather, it’s normalised the situation, and put Sinn Fein in a position where they can now just fuck over “their own” community in exchange for a few token concessions.
Furthermore, young people in Ardoyne have grown up amid a backdrop of sectarian violence and bigotry. In 2001, primary school children were unwillingly pushed into the forefront of this, when their Catholic school, Holy Cross Primary, began the target of loyalist bomb attacks and pickets, purely because the route to school passed through a loyalist area. It’s not beyond imagination that some of these same school children – now teenagers – were involved in the recent protests.
because the 12th of July has always been about shopping, and nothing else.
Sinn Fein are now in a dominant political position, able to top the polls in the last two elections, mostly as a result of the Unionist parties being divided on varying levels of nutterism. But this shouldn’t obscure the fact that the Orange Order are still a hugely influential political force: while only 3% of the population belongs to a lodge, 66% of all the Unionist members of the Northern Ireland Assembly are members. The OO are keen to assert their own power on the streets, and their 12th July demonstrations are as more about pushing their own political agenda than any notions of celebrating Protestant ‘culture’ – it’s important for them politically to be able to force the police into supporting their demonstrations, which is why they continually attempt provocative marches through nationalist areas.
This is despite the best attempts of local authorities, who’ve hilariously tried to rebrand the whole affair into a family fun day with a carnival atmosphere and, allegedly, shopping: ‘Orangefest’.
The grand solution that both the Shinners and their governing partners the DUP are proposing is a new piece of legislation on parades, the Public Assemblies Bill. Similar to what’s happened in Glasgow over the past year, this will use the cover of Orange marches as an excuse to clampdown on demonstrations by trade unions, community groups and anyone else who’s getting in the way of the neo-liberal restructuring of the Occupied Six.
It will require that anyone planning a public assembly of more than 50 people will have to give 37 days notice, with failure to comply potentially leading to a prison sentence. Meanwhile, the Orange Order themselves will barely be affected by this, given that their demonstrations are organised well in advance.
In reality, it’s being used to stifle dissent – in a country not afraid to take to the streets – to the massive package of cuts, job losses and ‘austerity measures’ that’re being forced through by the main two parties – the same two parties who’re drafting this hugely undemocratic legislation. Remember that Northern Ireland, like Scotland, is heavily dependent on the public sector for employment; during the election campaign David Cameron said it was ‘worse than the Eastern Bloc’ in terms of state dependency.
Whatever you think about it, whenever there’s a group of young people from a deprived community which has been under siege by loyalists and the police for decades coming out into the streets to show their anger at the system, it’s hard to condemn them. As long as these problems persist, there will be riots every year around the July parades – no one should have to live with the threat of Orange Order marches parading through their communities, effectively putting them under police lockdown.
At the same time, these same communities are losing the right to protest. The idea that this is being done to contain sectarian marches is a cruel joke when you see the police attacking protesters trying to defend their own communities.
Does SSY or SSP have any links with Eirigi ?
Eirigi Glasgow Facebook page
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/eirigi.glasgow?ref=search
Good piece there Liam. The active resistance of the youth of Ardoyne and Republicans may well mean that the British government and its quislings and puppets in the 06C have a change of mind when it comes to next years attempt to force the unwanted OO through Ardoyne. Also Republicans in other areas of the O6C stepped up physical resistance in support of Ardoyne.
Your article was marred only by your cheap dig at Republicans who you called macho losers and incapable of developing resistance. So you wont be supporting the almost 40 men in Maghaberry Gaol who are under almost 24 hour lockdown and facing brutality and degradation from the screws, as you see them as macho losers. Was Sands, Connolly, Costello, McCann, O Hara etc etc macho losers?
Support the political prisoners and POWs- political status now.
I read Martin McGuinness has been invited to Tory Party conference – http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/mcguinness-conference-invite-set-to-anger-conservatives-14879409.html#
Another step on the inevitable march to the republic no doubt.
That was a cheap dig at the I.R.A, the imperial power that is Dominos Pizza has to be confronted.
What imperial powers have you confronted Ross? You can safely mock volunteers who risk their lives and freedom in the struggle to free their country, behind your computer.
Are female volunteers macho losers, what about the gay volunteers – are they macho losers? The SSY calling Oglaigh na hEireann losers is beyond parody? Wonder if the comrades in the Basque Country or Palestine are tarred with the same brush?
i apologise for any offence caused . at the current time though, i don’t see how a small vanguardist sect occasionally leaving bombs outside police stations and setting up the occasional roadblock to hand out such masterful propaganda as this: http://i30.tinypic.com/v60tbt.jpg is going to bring a 32 country republic (nor “eliminate anti-social behaviour”)
The Real IRA member in that pic has obvious man boobs.
The struggle for national liberation has many aspects. The political mobilisation of hundreds then thousands is vital. The military also have a major part to play in the struggle against British armed imperialism and in maintaining community support through revolutionary republican justice. There is a debate to be had and indeed it is ongoing and healthy with regard to anti social behaviour and the issues of drug and alcohol etc.
Yo fianna, someone seems to be dodging the question!
Is it right to shoot Domino’s delivery men as collaborators?
Maybe the cheese on the pizza was an unhealthy shade of orange.
Yes collaborators who service the British Army of occupation were warned and have continued to be warned about collaboration. They were wounded and not given the coup de grace unlike the two soldiers, in this case they appear to be have unintenionally shot in the opening volley.
Fianna, shut up. When we wrote this article we knew you’d come along to muscle in sooner rather than later, and guess what = your opinion is still shite. We support the real agents of change in Ireland who would like to see a united Ireland. They are the ordinary people such as the ones caught up in protesting/riots/police kettles in Belfast talked about here. Not the RIRA or the CIRA. They are fucking macho fannies like yourself who equate attempted murder of pizzaboys with armed struggle. It’s not the same thing, and you’re a joke, and you shouldn’t be allowed near real politics. Lucky, then, that you’re tiny. Unlucky that the only way you can assert yourself is failed bombs/trying to kill Dominos staff. I don’t give a fuck if you think SSY doesn’t do anything. Unlike yourself we’re not deluded and we don’t think we’re massive and we don’t think we are the only people out there who’d like to see change, but at least we are doing something about the VARIOUS campaigns we believe in (Irish/Scottish nationalism is not the only important issue in the world) and we do what we do with competence and style, unlike you who sits on your arse trolling other people’s websites. But we do know that what we believe in is right. And we don’t think trying to murder pizzaboys is a) right, b) armed struggle or c) even political. Go and take a running fuck into a swimming pool and practise being a good Fiann.
So delivering pizzas is collaborating?
And the I.R.A did warn them according to you so that’s fine then. I guess the warnings are just a sign that they’ve got some good British values and politeness in their hearts in any case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxYzQtSxoKE
Stewart Lee is awesome, I thought I’d try and make it a bit more relevant than just posting the link, always gives me a good laugh when I watch it anyway.
Not so true Fiann- sorry pal you are way off beam- the people protesting against the OO and RUC/PSNI are very likely to support the RIRA and Republican separatism politically, they werent PSF supporters. At least you got it right about them being the agents of change. Republicanism in Ireland was seriously defeated and we are small and regrouping around core republican principles and attempting to develop an analysis and way forward in search of our goals, we are having a degree of success and will continue to develop as more and more people see the GFA for the fraud and snare that it was and is.
Ross you seem to be parroting Stewart Lee. The IRA is drawn from the working class and as a peoples revolutionary army will always work with and for the people and certainly has targeted key infrastructure and personnel and since Omagh avoided the possibility of civilian casualties.
“Republicanism in Ireland was seriously defeated and we are small and regrouping around core republican principles and attempting to develop an analysis and way forward in search of our goals, we are having a degree of success and will continue to develop as more and more people see the GFA for the fraud and snare that it was and is.” Are you Irish now?
As much as I didn’t listen to you before, you’re nothing but an object of derision since you said fucking DOMINOS PIZZA BOYS are ‘collaborators’. Aren’t you meant to be a fucking socialist? But no consideration of the economic reality of NEEDING A FUCKING JOB? As well as you just not being able to turn off the ridiculous switch in your head.
Im a Scottish Republican Socialist with an Irish passport. Im also an internationalist supporting national liberation struggles in other parts of the world, but as the old addage goes the best service to internationalism is to conduct the struggle where you are.
You seem to think socialism is about not using physical force to achieve advance and is all about debating ideas, attending tame marches/protests, propagandising and fighting elections. Whilst all these activities have a place they are not the be all and end all of socialist activity. Armed struggle and armed resistance is the right of all oppressed peoples and nations. As legitimate as the imperialists armies and war if not more so. Guevarra was a socialist, yes? Connolly? Trotsky? Lenin? etc etc all at times advocated and used armed struggle and revolutionary war.
Sometimes people kill and get killed sometimes innocent non participants and not so innocent- most of them are workers.
“all at times advocated and used armed struggle and revolutionary war” != socialism IS armed struggle. You’re RIDICULOUS. I mean what, should we start an armed struggle in Scotland right now, aye? Just us? And who or what do we target? And where will you be when you know, ordinary working class people dismiss us as a bunch of total fuckjobs?
“Sometimes people kill and get killed sometimes innocent non participants and not so innocent- most of them are workers.”
You’re pathetic. Fianna, armchair armed revolutionary, recognising that sometimes shooting a Dominos Pizza boy is an unavoidable price of a fucking unpopular ‘armed struggle’ that’s the preserve of a few macho fucking arseholes. Oops, sorry, I mean REVOLUUUUTION!!111!! But hey, I guess all those Irish republican people who’d actually quite like all the ‘armed struggle’ to stop now, after so much death and violence, are just reformist bastards who don’t know what socialism is and aren’t REAL republicans.
Away and wank out a cheap one wi a fucking Jean Claude van Damme film.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eRxPDLYM9Q
Why would anyone claiming to be a socialist have anything to do with the R.I.R.A. given their links with far right catholic movements across europe?
Squeak it would appear you support Provisional Sinn Fein and their accomodation of the continuing British claim of sovereignty over 6 counties of Ulster. The Republican movement is a serious political movement made up of men and women who in my experience as an actual member of that movement bares no recognition to the grotesque picture you ignorantly paint. Far from being macho- it is a movement that takes issues of resistance and social and political change seriously as the consequences of that resistance can literally mean severe repression, gaol or worse. Marian Price is the national secretary of the 32CSM are you claiming she is a macho arsehole? You are a disgrace to the SSP/SSY and Scottish socialist republicanism with your foul tirades and misrepresentation of Irish revolutionaries. Please read our documents and submissions and acquaint yourself with 32CSM before heaping vitriol on brave men and women who campaign and fight for Irish sovereignty and social/economic change in Ireland. Sin e.
What movements would these be Nick? Can you name them and your sources? I think you are referring to RSF attendance at conferences/meetings in Austria and Italy. I am a member of the 32CSM not RSF by the way.
Oh btw Squeak- there are plenty of very good lefts in scotland who dont come across as infantile identity politics middle class wadical students waiting to grow up and fuck the class over when the career comes along. Also fuck the armchair shit i and my comrades are active every day and week ya plank.
“Squeak it would appear you support Provisional Sinn Fein and their accomodation of the continuing British claim of sovereignty over 6 counties of Ulster. The Republican movement is a serious political movement made up of men and women who in my experience as an actual member of that movement bares no recognition to the grotesque picture you ignorantly paint. Far from being macho- it is a movement that takes issues of resistance and social and political change seriously as the consequences of that resistance can literally mean severe repression, gaol or worse. Marian Price is the national secretary of the 32CSM are you claiming she is a macho arsehole? You are a disgrace to the SSP/SSY and Scottish socialist republicanism with your foul tirades and misrepresentation of Irish revolutionaries. Please read our documents and submissions and acquaint yourself with 32CSM before heaping vitriol on brave men and women who campaign and fight for Irish sovereignty and social/economic change in Ireland. Sin e.”
LOL. You know, the Gaelic doesn’t make me take you any more seriously, amadan.
“Oh btw Squeak- there are plenty of very good lefts in scotland who dont come across as infantile identity politics middle class wadical students waiting to grow up and fuck the class over when the career comes along. Also fuck the armchair shit i and my comrades are active every day and week ya plank.”
LOL. Yeah, I’m waiting to grow up. Yeah, I want a political career. I’m just waiting it out, of course I am. And yet again, what the fuck is wrong with getting an education? Truly, I am a wadical fakey type for my study of linguistics. Like SSY doesn’t do activity. Lemme ask, since you’re so down on meetings and demos and streetwork and the like, what do you get up to? Blowing away pizza boys?
For SSY people; Fianna thinks I’m hardcore Sinn Fein! I cannot fucking win, can I?!
Ever since the shinners took the half crown and started bending the knee to the crown they have become very popular with the reformist socialists of the British left as they present no threat to British interests in Ireland and accomodate themselves to careers and wealth – all from their masters table. If you dont support PSF i will presume you support something like the SP in Ireland, there again probably not due to the Sheridan issue.
Good luck with your career as a pizza delivery worker, the way the economy is going thats about as far as your wanky linguistics degree will get you. At least you will be able to pronounce the names of the pizzas.
” Ham and pineapple, yes and thats to the British Army barracks, sir? Thank you, i wont be long so long as i can avoid macho losers.”
That last paragraph is glorious. I have to congratulate you on having absolutely no self awareness, given that you’re always on here giving it the socialistier than thou act and then sitting on the blog of a socialist youth group being all LOL ENJOY YOUR PIZZA DELIVERY CAREER KIDS! And bravo on dismissing linguistics as wank when you’ve left a good few comments on here chatting about the importance of Scots Gaelic and Irish. You should seriously consider a career in angry, angry stand up. You know, I may end up specialising in Forensic Linguistics and being an expert witness! OMG BENDING THE KNEE TO THE CROWN!!!!111!! Let me ask, if I did deliver a pizza to a british army barracks, do I deserve to get shot?
Truly, I am worried about British interests in Ireland. In fact, I thought about going to Pride on Saturday but ended up going on the walk instead; just felt more at home!
Your rebellion is over Squeak. Youthful,individualistic, short lived and middle class. Goodbye.
LOL.
God sake Squeak, did no one tell you that being well educated means that you’re not a socialist. It’s in the rules. Also in the rules is that shooting delivery boys is fine, as is killing 29 civilians and injuring many more, and when you get the opportunity try and blow up some traffic cones as well (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1852162.stm). Follow these rules then maybe you can be a socialist. I mean it’s what James Connolly would do today if he was alive…
Who says Squeak or anyone of the student SSY members are well educated? One thing i dont get here apart from two posters [maybe 3] is a political debate and discussion. Ross you just parrot BBC articles with quotes from that great socialist John Reid. You are just the leftish face of the British state. Omagh by the way was a tragedy and in time to come we will see the hand of the British state in it. Think thats far fetched? Then look at the biggest loss of life in the conflict in the Free State when British bombs massacred civilians in Dublin and Monaghan Town. British dirty tricks are never too low or too dirty.
“Omagh by the way was a tragedy and in time to come we will see the hand of the British state in it. Think thats far fetched? Then look at the biggest loss of life in the conflict in the Free State when British bombs massacred civilians in Dublin and Monaghan Town. British dirty tricks are never too low or too dirty.”
Nah, a big old pal of the RIRA trying to excuse Omagh by blaming the British government is no fucking surprise. Seriously, own your shit.
The car bringing the bomb north was tracked, the bomb maker was onside with the Brits as was one of the volunteers driving it in. Yes republicanism really needed to bomb a nationalist town where our national chairperson was a sitting councillor. The bomb was meant to be parked at the courthouse- it wasnt and the RUC herded everyone towards it at the bottom of the High Street. No RUC casualties. The Brits needed Omagh to stop the growth of Anti-GFA Republicanism and to stop the RIRA growing and becoming militarily powerful, it has been said about 1/4 of PIRA Volunteers were coming over.
Squeak and Ross two uncritical parrots of the British ruling class media line.
The drama by Paul Greengrass (who also did Bloody Sunday) about Omagh does detail how both the Gardai and the RUC knew in advance that a bomb was going to go off in Omagh. Whether the security forces were incompetent or actively allowing a disaster to occur to discredit the put the RIRA out of business remains to be seen.
Ultimately though it doesn’t change the fact that the RIRA did plant 500 pounds of explosive in a car bomb set to go off on a high street during daytime. They may have left a warning but it’s still a bombing that the Reals must have known could potentially take many civilian lives.
And politically, it was carried out a few months after Northern Ireland voted by a majority – including the catholic and republican population – to endorse the GFA, rightly or wrongly. Dissident republicans IMO should have recognised the will of their own communities that the guns be silenced, and argue against the settlement using political means only. That’s what the dissident IRSP/INLA did, and CIRA and RIRA should too.
If a 25 year bombing campaign with support of a substantial minority of the nationalist population (and state assistance from Libya) couldn’t defeat the UK in Ireland the RIRA/CIRA won’t either. Fianna mentioned Guevara in an earlier post about Socialists who used violence, but Guevara also outlined that there had to be clear conditions justifying it’s use.
What Andy said.
RIRA called a ceasefire and a complete restructuring and re organisation as well as a period of deep reflection and analysis after Omagh. The Republican movement is not a monolith and there is a healthy debate about the way forward. Andy republicans more than anyone else are aware of the limitations of armed struggle given the balance of forces, however many republicans hold onto the need for the Irish people to have the right and the ability to maintain armed resistance to British imperialism. IMO we are in a period of tactical use of armed struggle and its primary objective at this stage is denormalisation, defence, community justice and later towards maintaining liberated zones and preparing the military capability for more ambitious stages. However politics is the key and mobilisation of the youth and working class and development of an all Ireland social, economic and political struggle all linked inseparably to the absolute core question of Irish sovereignty is an absolute prerequisite to a long term victory for the Irish revolution.
The 32CSM as a broad movement is a starting point towards the development of such a struggle and PSFs capitulation to imperialism along with the impotence and sheer marginilsation of the small socialist groups in Ireland at the moment means i have every confidence that the 32CSM and others will be the leadership of the struggle for national liberation and the socialist Republic.
Does the SSP still believe the GFA is a progressive step towards a united Ireland? Has the issue been debated much recently?
Fiannanananannanaalba has terrible politics and we should probably stop engaging with him. Seriously if we asked him about his politics on women, the environment, LGBT rights, etc, we’d probably get even more shocking answers than we have over THE ONE ISSUE TO RULE THEM ALL – IRELAND. This man genuinely said that people who deliver pizza to barracks deserve to die. We’re never going to get intelligent debate out of him and it’s just going to keep going round in circles of him trying to personally insult people he doesn’t know and us rightly pointing out his terrble politics and him ignoring the point/trying to justify the unjustifiable. I say we put him in the spam filter and only let things that aren’t deliberately trollish and inflamatory through.
Speaking as an Irish republican I don’t think fianna’s contribution to this discussion has been anything other than destructive.
The Ardoyne riots cast a spotlight on the realities of the shortcomings of the current settlement in the North of Ireland. We have witnessed the state carrying out a big mobilisation of its repressive apparatus, to ensure that sectarian triumphalists are granted the right to intimidate people from predominantly Catholic communities.
People from all communities in the North had had more than enough of the fear and insecurity caused by the Troubles and the vast majority of folk were hopeful that conditions had been changed to allow politics to be fought out through debates and votes rather than guns and bombs.
But for any democracy to be functional it has to allow the right of minorities to live in peace, and encompass aspects of localised democracy whereby local communites have a level of control over how their area is run.
In this case the government has ordered the cops to beat a clear path for the Orange Order to march through, despite the vehement objections of the people of Ardoyne and other locales. You don’t have to be a conspiracy theorist to believe that this may not be unconnected to the majortiy of Unionist politicians being members of the Lodge.
If such scenes are repeated year-on-year – i.e. if there is no official curtailment of the OO’s ‘right’ to provocatively march wherever they choose – then there is a risk of increasing numbers offering a level of support to vanguardist groups such as the RIRA and CIRA, who effectively see certain forms of violence as a principle, not a tactic. Some may see them as the only serious avenue of resistance, particularly when the Sinn Fein leadership seems only concerned with condemning the rioters rather than the police or the sectarian provocations.
But ultimately the ‘dissidents’ are tied to a method which has been proven in practice to be incapable of achieving the goal of Irish reunification. Pointing this out does not make someone unconditionally supportive of Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams.
From a socialist standpoint, it is 100% legitimate to make criticisms of (e.g.) the RIRA’s shooting of 2 pizza delivery workers, the conservative policy threatening anyone associated with drugs, and the mass carnage & death caused in Omagh.
Instead of accepting these criticisms or really engaging with these arguments, fianna resorts to unacceptable personal insults and non-political sniping. If the hypothetical prospect of growth and a level of hegemony for the 32CSM were to occur, could we really expect them to encourage dissent and criticism within the wider republican movement?
Sarah my politics on women, LGBTS, the environment are to support and fight for full equality whilst recognising that struggle must be as part of the overall emancipation of all mankind – that is socialism, democratic and global. On the environment im more than happy to discuss the issue in the round but this is not the thread.
James you seem like a few to have recognised that PSF are incapable of being anything other than constitutional reformist nationalists who have even given up on the socialist holiday speechifying as they implement British rule and play on the sectarian division institutionalised and reinforced by the imperialist so called peace settlement that is the GFA. I asked if the SSP still fully support the GFA and you havent answered.
The republican struggle since 1969 and all the losses entailed was not for equal rights or to reinforce reactionary Catholic defenderism- it was and is a struggle for independence and a socialist united Irish Republic.
James you are right about loyalist triumphalism and the OO parades in nationalist areas- they are physically and politically opposed by the residents and by the likes of 32CSM.
On armed struggle – i defend the right of the Irish resistance to use armed tactics against an opponent armed to the teeth and with the full panopoly of repression of the foreign British apparatus. We in the 32CSM are a political movement determined to militantly resist Britain in Ireland by politicising and mobilising a risen people in revolutionary struggle.
You may or may not be right about the use of armed struggle, we can discuss that in more detail.
BTW James the tone you strike in your post is very much about bourgeois democratic norms and equality while being disparaging of those socialists who reject the parliamentary road.
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=21864
I suppose in a way imitation IS the sincerest form of flattery, but in another way STOP STEALING OUR ARTICLES YOU THIEVING DICKS.
You socialists are a disgrace the last fucking straw you people support palestinian who launch random rocket attacks these could land on anybody also they included suicide bombing. Yous are just a bunch eh pricks. When faced with real imperliasim you shy from it the RIRA and CIRA have vast support in northern ireland the youth want to fight. May I remind you the PIRA only had a core of a hundred men. They caused bombing runs in northern Ireland of which most bombs were phoned in so that only buildings were destroyed. The Rira and Cira have continued in this vein continously warning authorities so that only military and police figures are targeted. You understand nothing of the situation in Northern Ireland socialism is not a factor when you are nnot even granted the basic freedom of having your own land. You have shown yourself to be nothing but liberals continously you have ignored true socialist struggles prefering to argue against oil power plants than join in in helping the BA workers and now the BAA workers in their true socialist aims. The British continue to hold ireland against the Irish peoples will and the IRa will never stop until a united Ireland is gained.
Also everyrtime someone disagrees with your views you do not answer them but use cheap jokes and mostly speak gibberish. At no point you have argued succesfully that the GFA is working and that from a republicain point of view a united Ireland is getting closer to unification. Also for those that say it is impossible for Ireland to win an armed struggle please tell me how the South of Ireland gained its independence. Their are deaths in war all wars have deaths and this must be accepted innocents may be killed but it is the end goal that matters.
Well said in your last post there Paul. Socialists are revolutionary tourists, the further away the struggle the more they support it. The SSP supports the GFA- Got Fuck All- they support British imperialisms and unionisms copper fastening of partition and the continuation of British occupation of Ireland. Theres more to national liberation than armed struggle, but the SSP/SSY are pacifists who ridicule armed resistance to armed to the teeth imperialism. Let them go light candles and amble round with nothing more than shouty slogans and interminable discussions to prove how clever they are. The real struggle goes on.
Right fianna, last fucking straw, your abusive posts don’t cover up the fact that you’re a crackpot who fantasises about violence from his armchair. You contribute nothing. BANNED. (anyone who isn’t sure why, read his last post here)
This is ridiculous fantasy. The violence of the War of Independence which led to Britain ceding control of the 26 Counties? Historically justified, particularly as it had the support of the bulk of the Irish people. The RIRA on the other hand, are a tiny terrorist entity trying to use their bombs to cause an escalation in State repression and consequently, as the theory goes, renewed resistance. Despite the fact that almost no-one, anywhere, has any appetite for this scenario.
Paul, I have no idea why you expect us to defend the existing settlement, clearly it is an opportunistic stitch-up designed to enable the development of the economy on a ‘normalised’ capitalist basis, with increased exploitation of the working class and the opening up of new markets, integration into the European economy, privatisations etc. And of course the current ‘peace’ is unlikely to be viable in the medium-term as partition will always provoke antagonisms and the skeleton of the Orange State is still in place. But, if YOU knew anything about “the situation in Northern Ireland” you would know that support for the type of armed struggle practised in the past by the Provos and currently by the ‘dissidents’ has collapsed in the last 20 years, including among many who were previously its firmest supporters – and I am talking about the general population, not the political leaderships.
If the GFA has in any sense brought re-unification any closer, it is simply in the recognition that the Provo campaign was ultimately proving counter-productive. There is an opportunity now for revolutionaries to formulate new strategies to rally the working class to overcome sectarianism, racism and other divisions, and to overthrow the bosses of whatever nationality. Instead some are trying to warm up last night’s dinner, despite the fact no-one wants it and it wasn’t all that satisfying first time round.
Oh and by the way. Would I fuck ever support the unrestrained power of armed cliques over the people. See if you can work out how punishment beatings might not be everyone’s favourite model of crime prevention and justice. Or why I don’t really want to see my family governed by an Army Council military dictatorship.
PS don’t see the need to ban fianna for his post here. His politics may be shite but it’s good to have someone around who forces you to test your ideas out. Don’t think he was being particularly abusive.
Fianna may have went about things the wrong way in his criticisms of SSY/SSP etc but his points are very valid. As a seasoned republican and political campaigner based in Glasgow I have worked alongside many “socialists” and much of what they say and do has no substance. On occasions when we have tried to get them onboard we have been met with vacant expressions. Yet as soon as there is a need for an anti Israel demo or what not they are throthing at the mouths.
I think one only has to look at recent activity surrounding SSY when they confronted EDL/BNP/NF at George Square recently, the girl who appeared to be the organ grinder was thanking the forces of the crown for the way they handled things. Seriously what was that all about? Since when did Socialists start thanking the cops?
I don’t support the tactics of dissident Republicans, but I will not condem them either. I defend the right of every Irish man, woman and child to pick up weapons to defeat the imperialist forces.
At this present moment the working class have a much bigger war on our hands as we are faced with billions worth of cuts whilst the tories let big business off with massive tax bills, the rich will get richer and the poor well we’re fucked. We need to work together more than ever before. Community work is the way forward, the SSP as far as I am concerned are finished after after the whole Sheridangate scandal. I would urge all who post here to support the SNP nationally and start to do more work locally off their own backs via different community greatest.
In the words of a great Scotish/Irish Socialist and Republican “The great only appear great because we are on our knees. Let us rise!”
It was not solely SSY who confronted the BNP and SDL in September… and it definitely wasn’t us thanking the cops. Go read our report from the Killie anti-SDL mobilisation and that should clear us from that particular allegation! You’re quite right, socialists shouldn’t rely on the state to combat fascism.
Many of us are involved in “community work”. We’re involved in lots of things.
Re. the SNP… so I take it they’ll be putting an anti-cuts, defiance budget through the parliament in a few weeks then? As if. They’re going to try and blame westminster while doing the Tories dirty work for them. Scotland’s Champions.. lol
“I think one only has to look at recent activity surrounding SSY when they confronted EDL/BNP/NF at George Square recently, the girl who appeared to be the organ grinder was thanking the forces of the crown for the way they handled things. Seriously what was that all about? Since when did Socialists start thanking the cops?”
so observing one person who you don’t know who they are is a basis to condemn us all? How do you even know they were a member of SSY? We take part in the Scottish Anti Fascist Alliance for this kind of stuff, we’re just one of several groups/individuals involved. Maybe you should get involved? http://scottishantifascist.org.uk/
“the SSP as far as I am concerned are finished after after the whole Sheridangate scandal.”
That might be your opinion, but we appear to still be here and doing stuff, so maybe you’re wrong? We’ve got nothing to be ashamed of re TS, we stood up to misogyny and lies and we’re proud of it.
“At this present moment the working class have a much bigger war on our hands as we are faced with billions worth of cuts whilst the tories let big business off with massive tax bills. . .I would urge all who post here to support the SNP nationally”
The same SNP that’s away to pass on Tory cuts to us through the Scottish budget, and doing nothing serious to challenge their legitimacy as an unelected government of Scotland? At least we’re trying to stand up to them
“Start to do more work locally off their own backs via different community greatest.”
Don’t understand what that means? We’re involved in lots of community work, in my area check out the Burgh Angel and similar projects to bring together people wanting to fight back in the community.
All in all, a sniping post of having a go over a lot of pish, with no constructive alternatives but to support the SNP?!? Thanks for that.
I’d just like to thank Oglach for avoiding sweeping generalisations and corny cliches. Oh and cheers for the constructive, comradely message.