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The resistance comes to Scotland: school strikes; uni occupations; thousands on the streets
Hundreds join the march at Glasgow Uni (photo: glasgow uni src)
Today’s massive student protests represented the first nationally co-ordinated days of action against Tory cuts and austerity.
Across the country, students walked out of class, went into occupation and took to the streets to show their opposition to the government’s plans to wreck the education system as we know it, through huge cuts to schools and unis, and an effective tripling of tuition fees.
Building from the momentum of November 10th, when 50,000 marched in London, today’s actions were incessantly hyped up in the media, with near daily reminders in the press that violent gangs of “anarchists” were about to descend on YOUR TOWN CENTRE, GREAT BRITAIN!! Sure enough, the media got their exciting riots (and they could even put the GIRLS AND CHILDREN angle on it this time too!), when the main London demo was brutally attacked by riot cops, who all too conveniently abandoned a police van amid the student hordes, providing neat justification for their savage “counter-attack”. Leftie Labour MP John McDonnell has laid bare what happened: “There was no violence whatsoever but the police surged and pushed them into a tight corner, putting people in danger of being hurt. It was a peaceful and good-humoured march and the police should have respected that but no they have provoked anger.”
Although this stole the headlines, elsewhere tens of thousands marched across the country. In Scotland, the main demos were held in Dundee, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Dumfries, but news of spontaneous walk-outs at schools and colleges across the country is continuing to filter in.
In Glasgow, the walk-outs began at 12 noon. At Glasgow Uni, around 400 students were, completely unexpectedly, joined by 40 fourth year students from nearby Hyndland Secondary. The students held a lively march around the campus, culminating in a brief sit-in outside management offices. As news came in of mass occupations at the Glasgow School of Art and Strathclyde University – of 100 and 250 students respectively – we moved to march into town. Out of nowhere, dozens of cops emerged, penning us in. Fortunately, we were eventually allowed to march, going through Kelvingrove Park and Argyle Street to Charing Cross. The demo then joined up with the Art School students and they marched on to Strathclyde Uni, where the students remained in occupation of the Royal College building, with many more gathered on the street outside.
Students marching in Edinburgh (photo: eddie truman)
Unfortunately, this meant the Glasgow/Hyndland/Art School bloc didn’t stick around until 3pm at Buchanan Street, for when a call-out had gone out for school, college and uni students from across the city to assemble together. And due to some, ahem, complications involving the police over at Charing Cross, many of the organisers of the 3pm event were pre-occupied and unable to ensure a presence there. Understandably, though, most of the people on the march were keen to get to Strathclyde Uni, where we’d heard news of arrests and growing numbers of police and security.
As the police kettle around the protest grew, a small group including SSY members, broke off and occupied the City Chambers. Around 20 students and anti-cuts activists made it inside, but given their low numbers and the heavy police presence, it was decided to leave after a brief time.
At 5pm, the day of action culminated in a 700-strong rally in George Square, with a number of speakers from political parties and trade unions.
Elsewhere, around 300 students, joining with another 50 workers and claimants, marched on the Lib Dem offices in Edinburgh, holding a sit-down protest on the street outside. Later on, 200 of them went on to occupy a lecture theatre at Edinburgh Uni. They’re still in there now, and they’ve called a rally for 12 noon on Thursday outside the Appleton Tower – get down if you can!
In Dumfries, students from the Crichton Campus held a 200-strong protest, attracting loads of attention from the local media – pretty good for a town that has a uni student population of 650.
But perhaps the most impressive aspect of the day was the high school strikes, which had sprung up from nowhere over the past few days. SSY led the call at Glasgow student planning meetings last week for united action in the city centre – and to put out a call for school students to join us. Although this perhaps didn’t come to everything we’d envisaged today, the fact that the facebook event page for the 3pm mobilisation sparked student walk-outs across Scotland is surely enough to vindicate it.
school students rush to join the demo, edinburgh (photo: et)
What today’s events showed is that where, often individuals, did put out the call for a strike in their school, it worked. In many cases this was done with little more than facebook and word of mouth, and at just a few days notice. Yet dozens of pupils from Whitehill Secondary in Dennistoun, Lenzie Academy in East Dunbartonshire and the previously mentioned Hyndland Secondary – and they’re just the ones we know about – defied their school management to walk-out and join the city centre demos. Reports abound of school students being threatened with expulsions, letters being sent home, or banned from school activities.
The future is in safe hands, and there’s a whole winter of discontent to keep us going. Onwards!
Glasgow Uni Left Soc. are meeting on Thursday evening to discuss this and the way forward for the struggle… more here
Thanks for the updates. Two questions, though: why did glasgow uni leave the campus and head towards the city centre? Seems like a missed opportunity. Second, who gave the call out to assemble at buchanan st and why? Again wouldn’t have been better to encourage multiple occupations from the start rather than have another boring rally?
I meant glasgow uni students!
hi ian,
we felt it was important to get everyone together – this is, after all, a national day of action. it also meant that students could get involved from places where they may not have high enough numbers, or the confidence, to go into occupation themselves. if we’d all just stayed on our own campuses, it would’ve basically been limited to glasgow and strathclyde unis, and maybe the art school as well. much better to get loads of college and school students involved as well.
the call-out for buchanan street arose out of the 120+ glasgow-wide meeting at the art school last week. there was definitely talk about taking some ‘action’ when we got there, but as I wrote, this didn’t really happen and everyone ended up by george street
Liam, this is a good write up but yet again I feel it’s too conciliatory towards some people who deliberately fucked things up yesterday. I know it’s boring and off putting for people who don’t know the ins and outs of different socialist groups, but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade (or a group a bunch of lying, untrustworthy, non-radical idiots.)
The whole point of the 3pm meetup was to allow every student no matter their place of study to participate in mass action. It was deliberately set well before the 5pm rally so that if there was a mood for it the participants could take mass direct action and cause real disruption to get our point across.
The 3pm meetup was agreed democratically in a mass meeting of students from across the city. The Glasgow and Strathclyde uni Socialist Workers’ Party members were at this meeting, and had to accept that their argument for fragmented action at individual campuses had been defeated and claimed they would support the 3pm mobilisation.
As it was, they marched past Buchanan Street at 2.55 with no intention of stopping to let others join the march. At this time, the SSY members who had won the argument for united direct action were busy taking action to try and stop the cops jailing one of us. The SWP therefore took the opportunity to hijack the march. They left people behind who were angry and disappointed. They later claimed not to know about the 3pm mobilisation, a blatant lie because they were at the meeting that agreed it!
They then went on to march the reduced group down to the front of Strathclyde uni, and sit us down in the road so we could chant under their direction. Blocking George Street frankly caused minimal disruption because traffic is easily diverted around George Square. They held people in one place while a kettle formed. They also deliberately stopped people going to show support to those of us occupying the City Chambers, forcing us to give up our position. They couldn’t have done their de-radicalising job better if they were the cops!
Btw, they also took our megaphone, used it til it didn’t work and gave us it back minus batteries (I told you NOT to let anyone not in SSY take it, cos I knew that would end up happening!)
The SWP yesterday deliberately lied and demobilised radical action. They MUST be held to account for the actions, and any of them are reading this, this issue will not go away!
(Edit: Didn’t want to come across like I was having a go at you Liam, it’s a good piece and probably on reflection strikes the right balance.)
I have always wondered what ‘greater good’ SWP sabotage serves.
Good point Murray. I don’t even get what they were trying to achieve by wrecking the 3pm assembly point. Quite clearly, this was just an exercise in asserting power. They hadn’t called the 3pm demo, they couldn’t control it, so they fucked it up.
It’s all hypothetical, but if it wasn’t for their actions we could have had a larger group and evaded police control, causing major disruption and making Glasgow’s name ring out as a hotbed of defiance.
Instead, we had a bunch of conmen in hi-vis bibs, telling everyone they were stewards [on whose authority!?], limited activity to boring, easily-contained ‘sit-downs’ and police-controlled marches, prevented people from doing anything genuinely radical, then made sure we all got subjected to speeches from bureaucrats before the crowd dispersed.
They call themselves revolutionaries, in reality they’re nothing better than the NUS on steroids. They led countless angry chants about ‘fightbacks’ and ‘controlling the streets’, in reality they prevented this happening.
Sorry to sound like a moaning bastard, because in the bigger picture I thought the most important thing was the hundreds of young people, including big numbers of school students, who came out on the their first demo to resist the Tory cuts. But lessons must be learned and the movement cannot allow itself to be hijacked by a self-appointed minority with a conservative (note: small ‘C’) agenda.
The SWP I think, probably derive some sort of sick pleasure out of deliberately wrecking things for everyone else, it gives them a sense of power and superiority. We really need to do something about them as soon as possible. What exactly I don’t know but the amount of control they’ve gained, particularly at Glasgow Uni, is completely destructive for the left in Scotland. I struggle to see how we can ever work with them again if they’re just going to immediately hijack any movement for their own ends. Perhaps it’s time to organise students independently of ACAN for whatever their front organisation is currently called.
Fucking great guys! Always enjoy reading some sectarian shit in the afternoon.
A couple of points you may want to consider:
1) I was at the Glasgow Uni ACAN meeting and no one raised the proposal for the Buchanan Street demonstration (scared of losing the argument?)
2) Did you expect people to stay on Buchanan Street instead of going down to show solidarity with occupying Strathclyde Students? (I bet you wanted everyone to stay on the Buchanan Street, so you could be like ‘hijack’ the moving demo), also one else is complaining apart from you guys
3)Organising separately from ACAN? Go ahead; the only problem is you guys are idiots who have no strategy or politics. Maybe you should spend less time moaning on the internet and read a bit of Trotsky on the united front.
4)As for the NUS do you want the anti-cuts movement to be full of organised lefties? Is this not same strategy you guys had around the anti-war movement?
The problem with the left is the SSY you have no understanding of context, balance of class forces or even how to organise (though I guess they teach some basics at “secret camp squirrel”
students must be boiling after being kettled for so long. however, I do support them as many wont be able to complete their studies through fear of indebtedness which has been a feature of our society for too long. surely you can’t put a price on education?
Lenin:
The Buchanan street demonstration was called at the Glasgow-wide art school meeting, with people from lots of different universities and colleges. If people wanted to go down to Strathclyde then fair enough but the problem was that the widely publicised meeting point was abandoned before 3 o’clock. I had people phoning me trying to find out where the demo was, and a few others who said they only found it by chance – what about all the other people who couldn’t get in touch with someone? Surely people could have stayed for at least a bit – over 1000 people had said they would be at buchanan street an 3pm, I’m sure some of them ended up lost.
That’s over 1000 said they would be there on Facebook – obviously the real number might have been lower but it’s still significant!
Lenin, 1) the GU ACAN meeting was not where the proposal for the Buchanan st demo was raised – it was at a meeting at the Glasgow School of Art the next day, where over 100 people overwhelmingly supported having an assembly point in the afternoon for those schools, colleges and universities who were not in a position to go into occupation. It was opposed by several SWP members present but defeated, so there is no way SWP stewards didn’t know about the assembly point.
2) I don’t expect people to stay on Buchanan St forever, but if an assembly point has been called for 3, with approx 1000 people on facebook saying they were attending at 3 I expect people not to march off and abandon folk before then. I was coming up Buchanan St at 2.55 from the Central Station end and saw the demo was already moving. If you have been coming from Sauchiehall Street you wouldn’t have seen it. Yesterday we got several phone calls from folk around 3 o’clock asking where the demo was. How many people turned up there for 3′oclock and couldn’t find the demo because it had left early and they had no contacts to call? A democratically agreed assembly point was overuled so we could go to Strath uni and be kettled there.
3) The strategy we called for was the correct one, SSY members argued and pushed for an assembly point in Glasgow at the Glasgow School of Art. SWP members argued against it, then saw how many people were attending on facebook and realised their strategy and tactics were wrong. That’s why they didn’t carry out an occupation at Glasgow Uni but chose to march to the assembly point. If we had “no strategy or politics” you would not have gone along with our strategy on the day!
4) If the NUS call something we should support it but we should recognise the door for wider action is now open – NUS leadership condemned the Millbank action which was by far and away the best thing done by any anti-cuts demonstrators since the Coalition took power.
SSY and the SWP understand perfectly the context, balance of forces and how to organise, the problem is we both disagree with what to organise for with those balance of forces. SWP stewards yesterday led people into a kettle outside Strath which could have been broken, and assist in an attempt to occupy the chambers. It’s the same tactics they used at the anti-SDL demos in Glasgow and Edinburgh unfortunately, of trying to shut down anything more radical happening.
I think the SWP intended to have an occupation at the uni but were unable to. I’m not saying there isn’t room for criticism of their actions, because there is, but personally I’m not convinced they tried to stop an occupation at Glasgow uni like some people have been suggesting around the net.
The fact is ‘Lenin’, you and your SWP cronies abused the goodwill of the many unaligned students on that march, to carry out your own (bad and useless) tactics simply out of spite at the fact that when it comes to the actual battle of ideas, given the free space for people to come to their own conclusions (like happened at the Art School Glasgow wide meeting), people will come up with more radical tactics than you argue for. If you can’t control a meeting, march or movement using your narrow, elitist and untruthful tactics, you lose the arguments, because you go against the flow of what most left-leaning people who want to get involved in action believe and know works. The only way you could control that march was by acting as if you were in charge, which you do all the time. I’m personally of the opinion that youse should be banned from being within a metre of any fluorescent yellow bib, you only abuse the power that you attach to yourselves. You are to the right of the student movement right now, and are the most conservative lefties going. You will not be allowed to drag this movement into nothingness.
There’s arguments to be had over occupations and the way that yous behave when you self-appoint yourselves as stewards right and I’m happy to have those debates in a calm and comradely way at meetings. But deliberately denying a huge number of unaligned potential activists from knowing what’s going on and ignoring the democratic decisions of everything you can’t control is beyond the fucking pale, and it will NOT be forgotten.
I hope you’re aware of just to what extent you consistently make it seem like youse are agents of the state as well. Fucking helping the police kettle students, what the fuck.
self proclaimed communist “revolutionaries” turning up at a student protest in high vis vests and jackets to do nothing but play king for a day is possibly the most pathetic thing iv ever seen. As iv said a few times now to different people this is the 3rd protest in the last year I personally have seen them do this (some times under different organizational names but its always the same 5 or 6 people holding the microphones) and is the second time they have put me and the group of activists I was with in danger by cutting us off from the support of the main body of protesters. I don’t know what but I agree something needs to be done about the influence they are holding over demonstrations like this starting by asking them straight what there game is, it can’t simply be cowardice as some have suggested, and I doubt its because of orders coming from higher up in the party as the SWP in other parts of Britain don’t seem to act the same way. as someone said earlier this kind of stuff does not matter to most people not up to date on the main leftist groups in Scotland and we need to be fighting amongst ourselves (more than usual) right now like we need a hole in the head, but it is ultimately effecting the casual protester and the impact of direct action in Scotland, iv seen more than a few casual student protesters question the logic of staying outside Strathclyde for so long, there must be away to get them better educated on who is leading them. and lastly I think its important that we all keep this fresh in our minds going into this Saturdays SDL demo this has clearly a planned and concious effort to hijack these demo’s for unknown reasons and we have to make a sustained effort to fight it.
“also one else is complaining apart from you guys” Lenin I am not in the SSY or SSP or any leftist group on any official capacity I herd plenty of anarchists, socialists and average students complain about this. and how exactly is this sectarianism ?
“organising separately from ACAN? Go ahead; the only problem is you guys are idiots who have no strategy or politics. Maybe you should spend less time moaning on the internet and read a bit of Trotsky on the united front.” are you being serous or just trolling ? occupying the entrance to Strathclyde uni (which did not disrupt the campus at all the person I got the train home with had just returned from studying there) sitting down to “disrupt” an empty back street and chanting continually for over an hour at policemen, I bet the proletariat are bricking it from you lot. before you jump to point out the problems of other groups Lenin lets be clear on your lots problems. you spout this rhetoric every chance you get and claim to represent a working class who you couldn’t be more out of touch with unless you were a tory, and then when opportunity for real mass action by people comes you fail spectacularly because of it.
Lenin, I’m sure you’re well aware that SSY aren’t the only people who are completely disgusted with the behaviour of the SWP yesterday (which, it must be said, is part of a wider pattern of behaviour spanning decades). I’m a member of the Anarchist Federation and yesterday I saw first-hand what the strategy and politics of the SWP are really like.
During the “sit-down” on George Street, a friend of mine hurriedly approached the large group, telling people that the folk occupying the City Chambers (literally round the corner) needed support. Folk were getting up to leave when a steward ordered them to sit back down, which they did. I’m told that shortly after this, the stewards filled up the gaps in the police kettle, effectively preventing anyone from leaving. As far as the events at Glasgow Uni go, there are pictures of stewards standing in front of the doors leading to Muscatelli’s office to stop people getting in, and reports from a couple of comrades that they were pointing out unlocked doors to uni security.
If the SWP didn’t agree with the decision regarding the 3pm rally, fair enough, they could’ve splintered off from the main demo and gone to support the Strathclyde students themselves. Instead, they led hundreds of people expecting a mass city-wide rally (which, as has been pointed out, was agreed upon at an earlier meeting) to a secluded side-street to sit down and chant for a bit. Totally disrespectful towards those who walked out of their classes to find nothing on Buchanan Street.
It was really great to see so many people out, especially schoolkids, but mighty depressing to see those people used as political capital in the same old authoritarian anti-revolutionary power play. Most of the people at the demo were not hardened activists; they were students and they were fucking angry. And somehow all that anger and passion was channelled into the same old disempowering squib many of us have come to expect from the SWP. Sadly, whilst this behaviour is completely unacceptable, it’s also really unsurprising.
**”I bet the proletariat are bricking it from you lot” haha Bourgeoisie rather
Any criticism of the SWP is sectarianism Chris, didn’t you get the memo?
Well done to those of you who have pointed out the SWP’s actions yesterday. Personally I was really shocked by what I observed. And its ridiculous to say that leaving Buchanan St at 2:55 was for the good of the strathclyde students! It was to cripple the protest, as were the rest of the SWP’s behaviour on the day.
If there was such a hurry to get to Strathclyde and support the occupation there, what was up with the ridiculous continuing sitdowns and other delays (while safely on backroads rather than busy junctions – the SWP made sure that business as usual was unhindered yesterday!)? And why stop the protest so far back from the steps of strathclyde? A few of us easily walked around the cop lines and there was only 9 cops in front of the door! The occupiers were right there. With the hundreds we had, the cops would have moved as soon as we walked up to them. Instead the SWP told everyone to *sit down* a safe distance away!!! This meant the police could easily do their job of making sure the demo was pacified, while cop recruits were brought in to beef up their doorway presense.
Why did Elias from the SWP later on tell a bunch of those sitting down to stay there when they were getting up to join us in supporting the city chambers occupation?
This is exactly the kind of sectarian bullshit which makes the british left look like a joke. Yesterday saw one of the more large scale student protests in recent years and it involved anarchist , swp and ssy members – who were all in the minority. The majority was of students who simply wanted to make there voices heard. If people had wanted to occupy no amount of men or women in hi vis would have stopped them.
Why focus on the negatives – yes issues arose but they shouldnt be sticking points for collabaration in the future. Lets remember everyone yesterday is fighting the same fight. Better cross factional organisation will mean these events run smoother = which is better for the movement and better for students generally.
hi liam, cheers for the reply.
‘we felt it was important to get everyone together – this is, after all, a national day of action. it also meant that students could get involved from places where they may not have high enough numbers, or the confidence, to go into occupation themselves.’
Well, i don’t fully agree with this. If occupations and non-violent direct action are what’s really effective then leading people away from glasgow uni seems to get in the way of that. It is possible to do both – have a reasonably large demonstration whilst three universities/colleges are taken over. The ssy mention that this was given a lot of support. I think I even supported it. Not specifically going to buchanan st, but acting against cuts – and I think many others would have done the same thing. So, it’s a binding agreement to go to buchanan st. Likewise, that many people agreed is great but it does not mean that those (especially those regularly involved in such meetings, in organising them) can dictate to others what to do. I’m not saying you’re doing that, but there’s a danger there. Occupations are not something easily planned beforehand by mass meetings. Clearly, if that was done it would be stopped very easily.
You also mention that people would be isolated without a large march. Again, I’m not against the marching part of it altogether but I still disagree with the point. Highschool pupils from near glasgow uni came out to support, of their own accord. I highly doubt that that occupiers at glasgow uni would have felt isolated even without that. That there wouldn’t have been enough there etc.
I agree with all the criticisms of the SWP – but I don’t understand why this is surprising. Or why they weren’t told to stfu. They and others like them are a constant problem for those on the left who want to see directly democratic mass movements. We don’t, however, want to replace them with other ‘better’ stewards. The point is that a certain degree of spontaneity is crucial.
Am inclined to agree with Huey – much as I hate to see people assume authority and then misdirect people, we need a united left now more than ever. I agree that when one group appear to be hindering the movement then this should be pointed out, but there are ways of doing it that wont result in a sort of ‘war’ of resentment between leftist groups.
Yes yesterday could have been more successful. But it WAS successful. It was also well organised. Some of that organisation fell through, I’m not denying, but still. Am proud of youse in Glasgow. And so are more than me.
So aye, SWP swallow yer pride, and accept that no one group can ‘lead’ this student movement, which will succeed only through mutual co-operation.
And well done to all who were involved yesterday. The opening act has been, the show must go on.
ah, I meant: it’s NOT a binding agreement.
hi huey,
“Yesterday saw one of the more large scale student protests in recent years and it involved anarchist , swp and ssy members – who were all in the minority. The majority was of students who simply wanted to make there voices heard. If people had wanted to occupy no amount of men or women in hi vis would have stopped them.”
You know, I kind of agree with this: the swp couldn’t have stopped us if there had been an organised challenge to their strange, twisted hegemony. Next time, we’ll do better!
On having a united left, well I want more and more people (workers as well as students) to join the anti-austerity movement. They’re probably not in the ‘left’ at the moment, and more important than some bizarre unity between existing left grouplets, I think the people protesting should control their movement – that there needs to be a better, more directly democratic way of doing things. In other words, a unity from below.
Unity that glosses over very large differences, and ignores atrocious, undemocratic behaviour from the likes of the swp, is incapicating and can only lead to the sort of defeat we’re used to.
I think people are missing the point about the 3pm meeting point. There’s a difference between being flexible in tactics, which the day of action was and was always going to be from start to finish, and what the SWP did which was ignore the democratic decisions of the majority and literally leave people without a base in GU, SU or GSA in the lurch. How exactly were school students aiming to turn up at 3pm at Buchanan St supposed to know that the majority of protestors had moved to Strathclyde? They didn’t. No one knew what was going on. You couldn’t even see or hear what was going on even if you were in George Square facing in the right direction on the right side of the street. The will of the SWP should not have the right to override important meeting points. Likely everyone would have met between 3pm and say 3.15pm and then probably gone on to Strathclyde as there was some city centre action going on there. What gives the SWP the right to alienate and abandon potential activists who were excited to join in the mass meeting rally with potential to do ANYTHING from that point in town at 3? There is NO other explanation for it than that they wanted to undermine a) the decision of the meeting at GSA, b) the potential for direct action and that c) they were worried that if there was more people there they would be less likely to be able to control it. School students can be pivotal in turning a police kettle into direct action that makes an impact. The SWP were previously either arguing for not calling school strikes or were simply ignoring the suggestion. They lost the vote and the consensus on that, which visibly enraged them. On the day, they did what was in their power to undermine the potential of the people who don’t go to unis where the SWP have the twisted ability to call the shots on things like this.
I think everyone was unprepared for the eventuality that the SWP would do this, that they would attempt to sabotage the potential for a large and considerably more enthusiastic event (people were leaving consistently every time the SWP pulled one of their little stunts – making us wait in various different places, stupid sit downs, repeating the same chants over and over for half an hour in George Square). We had too much faith in them. People know better now, and not just the usuals who already knew what the SWP were like.
Never mind the infighting – what you doing for the 30th.
Get organised, fast.
This time try and pull off the central meeting point which was a great idea. Just do posters and organising that focusses on that and that alone.
I think people talking about how it’s not a big deal, and we just need a united left, are missing the point that this was a wrecking tactic that actually did ignore the united decision of a Glasgow wide meeting.
Seriously, I’m a total politico, not someone coming to my first demo, and even I had no idea what was happening; I walked on to Buchanan St at like ten to three and there was the demo, marching down already with basically only a couple of hundred people on it. I had loads of different phonecalls where people were trying to figure out what was happening, and were actually standing on Buchanan Street saying “Where is everyone? Not much of a turnout yet.” How did school students get on? I heard people standing on Buchanan St saying “If they’re not here soon then I’m just leaving.” It was an absolute fuck up motivated by bitterness, and it’s totally unacceptable. It didn’t even help anyone.
As far as the point about oh the swp couldn’t have stopped us no matter what we wanted to do, the fact is that they did. People wanted to get up and come to the chambers, people were getting pissed off with the sit down and started drifting away gradually, and all the while the swp sat in their hi vis vests actually saying things to people like “Sit back down.” I told them that you were all about to get kettled (crap kettle as it was) and I saw one person mention it to another self appointed steward, and then nothing happened. When you’re not up on all the boring ins and outs of left politics, if you see a hi vis vest and a megaphone you assume someone knows what they’re doing, and the swp know that fine well.
“Never mind the infighting – what you doing for the 30th.
Get organised, fast.
This time try and pull off the central meeting point which was a great idea. Just do posters and organising that focusses on that and that alone.”
This is about trying to make sure the same thing doesn’t happen again. There were posters and organising that focuses on the central meeting point; but at that meeting point the SWP hijacked the demo. It’s unacceptable, and they have to be held to account. That’s not infighting, that’s stopping self-interested people fucking things up.
“I agree with all the criticisms of the SWP – but I don’t understand why this is surprising. Or why they weren’t told to stfu. They and others like them are a constant problem for those on the left who want to see directly democratic mass movements. We don’t, however, want to replace them with other ‘better’ stewards. The point is that a certain degree of spontaneity is crucial.”
They were challenged, but they don’t listen. It’s not about having better stewards, we didn’t decide on having ANY stewards, they appointed themselves the controllers. It’s ridiculous.
Incidentally guys since I know you’ll be reading this, can we have a new megaphone and batteries?
“I think everyone was unprepared for the eventuality that the SWP would do this, that they would attempt to sabotage the potential for a large and considerably more enthusiastic event (people were leaving consistently every time the SWP pulled one of their little stunts – making us wait in various different places, stupid sit downs, repeating the same chants over and over for half an hour in George Square). We had too much faith in them. People know better now, and not just the usuals who already knew what the SWP were like.” this is what we really need to keep in mind going into this Saturday with the sdl and a possible further tuition fees protest next Tuesday, its very clear now that this is not simply a coincidence or a natural tendency of the Scottish branches of the SWP but planned and concious decisions taken by the group to behave like this for unknown reasons and we need to put a stop to it. and on a side note this is bugging me you clued up people seem to find it pretty common for the SWP to bang on about sectarianism but to me it seems really out of context in this discussion, like a child just throwing about big words they don’t understand to sound smart ?
My comments on needing a united left were directed against the SWP – surely the success of the student movement should be more important to them than their comtinued self-appointed leadership and getting all resentful when they lose votes etc? Especially in the light of “Lenin” above harping on about Trotsky and a united front – which seems mental since by all accounts the SWP managed to sabotage plans for a united front in Glasgow, and from reports of votes at meetings etc. seemed to be against this.
If the SWP want to be part of a united front they will have to stop trying to lead/sabotage things, I’m in total agreement there. Mutual co-operation is required, again, and deliberately not stopping at appointed and agreed and democratically voted-on meeting-places does not fall within that. Basically, I guess what I’m saying is, SWP please start acting like you’re with us against they cuts, not against us. We are not “sectarian” – we want everyone to be involved that wants to be. We just don’t want to be sabotaged or resented over differences in tactics. Voted-on stuff has to be adhered to or more than protests will get divided (which is bad enough in itself).
Pretty much.
I hate the word sectarian maily cause you and others use it everytime people disagree. Just say you causing an argument. Time and time again it is the smae story with this marches lets all go listen to fuck wits talking in the park or the square or wherever else anybody wants to talk shite. In the end I would believe that to unite is to have a demostration in the city centre it is the only way to draw in all students that are willing. Also it allows others like workers to come as most time these things are laughed off as student protests.
My main point would be to say to ban Hi-vis jackets you know theres not going to be radicalism when some twat has a brilliant hi vis jacket that will get him caught by the police. Also I don’t understand how you allowed your mega-phone to get out of your hands. Maybe a policy of giving to a person let him talk but make sure it is returned to the rightful owners straight after.
Plus if you are so radical why didn’t you go up and take the mega-phone back!
In conclusion I would state that if you want to be radical you will have to fight against the SWP and others who would like a big sing-a-long throughout the city. Action must be united stay together as a group and a mass then strike go out set the example and allow others the confidence to join with you.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
We can do better than in-fighting and post-hoc squabbles. Is this what we want the newly-radicalised students and workers to see? that we spend more time and energy condemning each others tactics afterwards than we do organising and consensuating on them beforehand? There are valid points on both sides, but even more importantly: it is no longer relevant. Every drop of vitriol spat at each other dilutes the blood and dries the mouth of the resistance. Why play into the hands of the common foe? It commends us that we feel strongly about our efforts, that we are self-critical of our actions, but in no way whatsoever does it further the cause to blunt axeheads against the inner walls. Take every ounce of frustration and wring from it dedication: to do better next time; to coordinate more effectively; to turn the obstacles of disagreement into the opportunities of diversity.
What are we here for? To prove our faction’s pedigree; to pronounce the lesser cadre? I thought we were here because we believe in a unifying cause that eclipses the fodder of our quarrels. I thought we were here to self-organise, to foster solidarity and mutual aid, to become greater than the sum of our parts. So long as we identify ourselves in accordance to our trifling three-letter acronyms, and not to the movement that encompasses and enlists them all, so long as we can be relied on to pick apart the seams of our struggle, then there is no need for the enemy to contend against us, they can content to watch us outflank ourselves, and collapse into autophagy, all because we are too shortsighted to resolve the road ahead, and focus only on the bearing on our brethren’s feet.
Well I say we can rise higher. No, that we must, we will rise higher. We won’t starve because the fork and knife dissent. We won’t stitch the glove and hat together and try to wear it over our eyes.
We are better than this. We are stronger than this. And we will win through unity, because the only other option is defeat.
Thing is though Laurie when one group repeatedly and insistently behaves in a manner that is harmful to any form of unity developing they have to be called out on it. Too many times in the past have I seen the SWP wreck anything they can’t control and when faced with criticism they come out with cries of sectarianism and accusing others of dividing the movement. They are also unwittingly backed up in their schemes by well meaning individuals who seek the unity they wish to destroy. their is unity in the movement against the cuts, against the attacks on our class and that unity also includes condemnation of those, like the SWP, who seek to destroy that unity.
I know there are good individuals in the SWP who will unfortunately take this criticism personally but hopefully they will look at the behaviour of their organisation and think about either changing that behaviour, a fruitless endeavour in my personal opinion, or leaving the party before they become burnt out and bitter at left wing politics. I don’t really care if folk leave and join another group or leave and continue to be active as an individual, I don’t want to recruit for any group or sect I just want to see the SWP either stop their ridiculous and harmful power games or simply cease to be. I seriously believe they are a danger and a hindrance to the growth of working class power in this country.
Here is a pamphlet discussing the behaviour of their old front group “Globalise Resistance”.
http://www.schnews.org.uk/monopresist/monopoliseresistance/index.htm
The SWP don’t deserve to be part of any united movement. We’ll have unity without them.
What’s happening next week?
alibi, there is not the same sense of urgency in Scotland – we haven’t even had our version of the Browne Review, due in December, yet – let alone anything concrete about what the [next] government plans to do. We need to be careful not to burn out the movement when we have a very long struggle ahead.
however, those in occupation at Edinburgh Uni have, I see, called a ‘national’ protest on the Scottish parliament… to coincide with a debate in Westminster that does not apply to Scotland. I can understand the need for rolling actions in England, but I think we’re maybe getting a bit ahead of ourselves by constantly focusing on ‘the next thing’.
I think we should, as the next step, be looking to get regular assemblies of students from across glasgow, like the meeting we had at the art school last week. Not the rash ‘glasgow-wide emergency meeting to organise for the 30th’ that was announced with barely 24 hours notice at strathclyde uni tonight, but something a) more democratic and participatory and b) more long-term. there’s now hundreds of newly radicalised school students in glasgow, and some of them are looking to set up a schools anti-cuts network. asking them to walk-out every other week would be a mistake at the moment, we need to build the networks first.
Very good points there Liam. Have you put them to the folk in Edinburgh?
I feel the 30th should be supported though, it may not be the topic of debate at Holyrood but worth letting Holyrood know it won’t be worth campaigning on lies as the Lib Dems did, that they’ll be held to account.
Burnout is a danger, you’re right. Their schools anti-cuts network is top drawer idea though and it would be worth these folk establishing links with their Edinburgh counterparts.
“something a) more democratic and participatory and b) more long-term.”
Definitely agree with you there but I do worry that if we err to far on the side of caution with regards burning out the momentum we are likely to allow it to fizzle out. Which is why I think that occupations alongside rallies and the like is the way forward. Rallies and marches and assemblies can help build the momentum whereas occupation, even fleeting ones, empower those involved – especially people new to politics – and gives them experience of organising things themselves. Which in itself is empowering.
I agree with Liam maybe we would feel differently if we were in England were this is happening now, we would probably have a greater sense of urgency. But I can’t help but think that calling for a second walk out so soon after last Wednesday is stupid and will prove to be counter productive. It has not given us enough time to organize properly and now today the NCAFC has called for a 3rd protest on the 5th of December, in my opinion there is absolutely no need to have one in between the 24th and 5th they should simply have kept the momentum up with the local occupations and protests and had a second national walkout next month. if we try and have one of these every week the numbers will begin to fall rapidly and the movement will burn its self out.
I agree with Welsh Andy.
Only found this thread today, apologies.
There is no use “calling people out” on their tactics unless you are going to engage with them (convince or combat) in some way. There are not enough people in this city for this fight, the 50 or so of us who care about this argument in Glasgow will end up wiping each other out. There is space (and the possibility) to use all tactics.
Anyway.
Second organising meeting (following on from the 18th@GSA),
29th (Tomorrow), proposed agenda
Glasgow-wide co-ordinating meeting,
called for Monday 29th November 2010,
17:00-20:30, CCA5, Centre for Contemporary Art, 350 Sauchiehall St, Glasgow
FACEBOOK group: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=172038096154908
EDITABLE agenda: https://docs.google.com/document/d/15Q0WKl1ONgwcEEr_AtrSOA11SOUNm97F8u_26_vVmkE/edit?hl=en&authkey=CL3lv-UM
Timetable, process
17:00 Introductions (solidarity with: RMT and TSSA (Tube Strikes), student occupations across the country, those arrested on demonstrations)
17:10 Discussion of process (e.g., this document), facilitation, consensus-indicating methods (a decision to be made before proceeding).
17:20 Facilitated group discussion (groups of no more than 10 !):
‘Recuperation’, talk to: what happened on the 24th.
(Each group will have an assigned facilitator. Please remember that each group should also choose a minute-taker, and a spokesperson. Please try to spread the burden fairly.)
Suggested Topics
* Successes/Failures
* Media response
* Public response
* Institutional response
* Police response
* Tactics that were used
* Route that was chosen
* Leadership/non-leadership, stewarding?
* Parallel actions/events, and their support
* London, Whitehall
* Anything else you feel needs saying.
18:00 Break for comfort
18:15 Facilitated group discussion (remixup of groups):
‘Mobilization’, talk to: what happens next?
Suggested Topics
* 30th Nov.
* 5th December
* Involvement of existing political parties/movements (fair systems, trust)
* Decision making processes (multi-party assent)
* Ego vs communality
* The role and structure of Glasgow-wide co-ordination
* Spectrums of activism, and training opportunities.
* Group safety/security
* Broadening the movement
* Anything else you feel needs saying.
* Self-organised Education
19:00 Break for comfort
19:10 Spokesperson’s reports.
19:30 Open floor (?)
20:00 Decisions / windup
20:30 End.
Hi Tom,
Thanks for all the work you’ve put into organising these meetings. I am slightly worried that there’s not been much notice to build up momentum behind the one tomorrow (actually later on today now) but I’ll be there and have been trying to spread the word to as many as possible.
I agree unity is a must, but it needs to be built on the basis of accountability and mutual trust. If we agree things collectively out of these meetings then the follow up meeting should have a right to ask why people disregard those agreements. I’m certainly for all kinds of tactics and diversity, but we need to be able to trust each other, that’s pretty fundamental imho.
The focus should of course be on how we go forward though. A key part of that imo is to regularise the city wide meetings and start trying to really build for regular mass action involving school, college and uni students.
Hi Jack,
sorry about the short notice. I was waiting for the outcome of the Strath ACAN meeting on Friday before replaying the glasgow-wide congress idea – as I have had no solid info on that, I thought another meeting neccessary, I have tried to get the word out as quickly as possible. I only found this article (and volumous commentary) last night, and have been variously trying to advertise it. I’m sure we can get at good set of dedicated and active people together tonight, and can work through some of the problems and come to decisions. School pupils are meeting on Thursday to organise their own city-wide network and support group, and some of them will be coming along tonight.
I agree on trust, and problems with prioritizing pragmattics over democracy: we need to formalize this rather better.
I am pushing for a fortnightly meeting in ‘safe’ or ‘neutral’ locations with outside facilitation, with actions of some sort in the weeks in between. The meetings would be to keep developing and keep coming up with new tactics, the actions would be to keep us visible and in practise. Practise/theory = praxis, as they say.
Hope you and others can make it.
word is that Clegg is at Holyrood from 3pm tomorrow
http://edinunianticuts.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/nick-clegg-in-edinburgh-tomorrow/