Recent Comments
- ZeitgeistWorker on Shitegeist
- RT Farty Kremlin Party | A Thousand Flowers on Shitegeist
- Javier Sobrino on Scotland and the Basque Country: the struggle for independence
- Gorbachev on Prostitution, the abolition of the victim and post-modernism's defence of the status-quo
- Andy Bowden on Class politics or anti-semitic conspiracies? Why David Icke, Ron Paul and Alex Jones are dangerous to the Occupy Movement.
Tags
afghanistan austerity britain BNP climate change Con Dem coalition demonstration drugs economy edinburgh education elections environment events evil megacorps fascism feminism fighting cuts glasgow greece health internet knobheads Labour Lib Dems moral panic music news police protest racism science SDL sexism sexuality SNP strikes tabloids Tories tv unemployment unions USA war women's rights workers' rightsArchives
- June 2012
- May 2012
- March 2012
- January 2012
- December 2011
- November 2011
- October 2011
- September 2011
- August 2011
- July 2011
- June 2011
- May 2011
- April 2011
- March 2011
- February 2011
- January 2011
- December 2010
- November 2010
- October 2010
- September 2010
- August 2010
- July 2010
- June 2010
- May 2010
- April 2010
- March 2010
- February 2010
- January 2010
- December 2009
- November 2009
- October 2009
- September 2009
- August 2009
-
Authors
- admin
- And
- Andy Bowden
- Brogan
- CelticEwan
- David
- Erofeeva
- Euan Benzie
- Frenchie
- ImSpartacus
- Jack
- James McIntyre
- James N
- Kirsty Kane
- Liam M
- Liam T
- lovebug
- LydiaTeapot
- Meghan
- Muzza
- Neil B
- neldo
- Sarah
- Scottish Socialist Youth
- Snowball
- Socialist Pharmacist
- Sophie
- Squeak
- Stuart
- syebot
- TheWorstWitch
- Wavejumper
Square Go wi the SDL in Edinburger
Awrite mah wee muckers? Here’s the Glesgie style lowdoon oan the demo opposin’ the SDL oan the 20th ay February.
Fucken… So yisterday me n aw the crew went oot tae Edinburger, right? We wur there tae tell ‘ay SDL mob whit we thoat ay their bolloks.
So, we spent fucken days staunin in the cauld waitin tae find oot where they wur. The blood wis jist aboot congealed in mah feet whin we heard this they were in some pub. Jenny Ha’s wis the name. An ahm hinkin “In a fuckin’ pub again?”
Bit that disnae matter. So wuv flew ootae there lit’ a bat oota hell if ye catch mah drift. Straight up this steep fuckin hill and the Polis ur lit’ “STOAP STOAP YUR NO GETTIN BY YA RADGES!” And we’re lit’ “Get yursel tae fuck, ya high-vis wanker.” So we’ve joost went jeggin oan by. But then, this radge, Amar Anwar wis lit’ “MOAN! WUR NO GONNAE DAE ANYTHIN USEFUL – LET’S JOOST GO FORTY-TRILLION MILES AWAY AND CHAT ABOOT HOW MUCH WE DON’T LIKE THUM.” and everycunt’s lit “Aw naw man… he’s dead posh, like. Should we joost go?” N’ they start turnin roon tae go wi him. So Ahm lit’ “Aw whit man,” an me and aw the other good cats wur like “SHUT IT YA WANKIN’ RADGE YE. MOAN PEPO! MOAN KICK THE SDL MOB’S HIEDS IN!”
So some pepo wur like “Aye man, fuck Amar Anwar, he’s a coward.” An we charged up tae the Royal Mile n then the polis wur pure bastards. They fucken kettoe’d us! They joost boaxed us in away fae the SDL’s fucken pub. An ah wis like “Aw naw man,”
Bit then, this fucken genuis, Arty, the cunt’s name wis, starts walkin’ backwurds taewards the polis! N he’s bangin oan aboot “Just let yerself fall backwards, feel the experiance clensing your lower charkrah,” n aw that shite, an that fair pissed the Pigs oaf.
Bit it never worked cause no everybudy would dae it. Fair play tae thum though, cause Arty, as good as he wis, did look like a wee bit ay a nutter dayn it.
So wuv joost fell back fur a bit, decidin whit tae dae. An low an behold! The polis tried tae kettoe us in again. They even hud a go at some young wumin, puhshin hur aboot an that. Pigs, that’s aw they ur man.
Then, It’s Arty tae the fuckin rescue again! While we’re aw fartin aboot worrying an tryin tae think, he just hits oot way
“If ye want tae stoap the SDL RUN DOON HERE!”
Fucken genuis, that boy.
So aboot fifty or mer ay us fuck off roon the coarner and doon a wee street. Nae cunt knows where wur gaun, cause maist ay us wur weegies tae be honest. Bit wur joost running any wey. Ahve no goat a clue, but ahm still aw lit’ “GO GO GO GO YA RADGES!” So roon aboot this time, some cunt gets a phone call fae Carly, who’s a fucken god send, cause she tells us where the SDL cunts ur. So wuv charged doon tae the crime scene and we bump intae her.
Bit then we kinna shat wursels a wee bit, cause the SDL walk oot right in front ay us, bit then we clock thit thur aw practically greetin. So wuv aw follayed thum, laughing an chantin at thum as thuv been caught way two Polis, who’re geein thum the hame-time treatment.
An we’re aw lit’ “CHERIO CHERIO CHERIO! SEE YE LATER! AWAY HAME YA BUNCH AH UGLY DAFTIES.”
An they ur aw like no sayin anythin cause thur shiten it fey the Polis bein there.
So the polis make thum go up the sterrs tae go tae the train station, an some big massive cunt throws a smoke grenage, an the Baldy Mob chuck it back, an the massive guy throws it back again. The big High-Vis Polis dafties don’t even say anythin. Pure fucken radge mate.
Anywey. Later oan, we aw goat split up, an ah wis burstin fur a pish, bit ah wisney leavin, cause, see, the wey we goat split up wis like, sum ay us wur doon the hill fae Jenny Ha’s an sum ay us were up the hill fae Jenny Ha’s with this big fat High-Vis Polis barrier between us. So ah thoat tae mahsel “The Polis wulnae move fae this side if we stey here, so they’re loacked in, the Manky Mob.” So ah didny move.
So then mere people get roon oor side an we joost aw bunch up an there’s fucken hunners ay us eventually. At wan point, the Polis brought some SDL cunts up this wee side bit an put them in the pub, but some ay thum started getting a wee bit radge and tried tae take a swipe it us. So a big giant Anarchist guy took a swing it thum an goat arrested. A well think’ gentleman, if ye get me?
So then nothin happend fur aboot twenty-billion years cause the SDL wur shiten thumsels in Jenny Ha’s, so we just nicked aboot chantin an annoyin the Polis. Eh, the Polis wur oot ay order, by the fucken way. Sum ay theum wur joost gettin too fucken lippy fur yur humble narrator’s likin. An ah wis like “You’re wanhntin a burst fucken lip, ya wank.”
So then thurs buses fur the SDL cunts, an we wur aw laughin cause there wis aboot twelve ay thum, so they sent a bus away cause they didny need it. That made us aw go “If ye canny fill a bus yese ur fucken shite, ya radges,” So we sang aboot that. Fucken pishin mahsel.
So then the Polis ur lit “Yese wahnt tae move oor there the noo, cause we’re awfay busy daein fuck all.”
An we wur lit “Naw.”
So we joost steyed where we wur. Ahm still bustin fur a pish, mind, bit ah wis set oan gein wan last finger tae the SDL wanks. So wuv steyed. We hud a laugh, loast wur circulation, goat piles fae sittin oan a freezin fence, an hud a wee round ay ‘I will survive’. Bit we wur aw starvin an maist ay us wur needin a pish quite fucken bad bi’ this point.
Bit then the victory wis sealed, mah wee chummos, cause the big stupit lookin wankers were paped oan eh bus, not a word fae thum, an they wur shipped oot, tae a hail ay’ “SCUM SCUM SCUM” fae us, an we gave ‘em a wee wave wi wur middle finger. Nice tae see yeese away ya cunts.
SDL, Wank Wank Wank!
So it wis a good day. Proves thit they ur joost wankers. Oan oor wey hame, we goat stalked by some wee weedy cunt wi a camera, and my wee chummo Andrew hits oot wey “He’s follayin us,”
So wan ay the crew turns roon an goes “Good shots, ay mate?” An this wee weed goes “Aye I like gettin shots ay Antifash wanks,” an he’s turned roon an slabbered “sieg Heil” an ah wis like “Aw naw man, you’re a pure spud, get yerself hame.”
An that’s the story toops, follay oor lead an tell eh racists tae get tae fuck, cause thur no welcom in mah sceme, mate.
Wee Lydia Tee signin aff, mah muckers.
Pure brilliant! Seriously, best hing ave read in ages.
Thank you! I’m so flattered. I didn’t people would like it this much!
Quality.
It’s really very good, do you mind if I put a copy up on the Platform writing section of the Word Power website too? (with a link to SSY as well of course)
http://www.word-power.co.uk/
Go ahead.
Do as you please. Just credit me as LydiaTeapot, I’d rather remain under that guise. 
Excellent stuff. Brilliant.
Fantastic piece of journalism! More of this kind of banter, I say!
Great read – what was Amar Anwar playing at?
This is surely the beginning of a new blog?
Your organisation is having a laugh? The Scottish Socialist Youth. You never stopped fascists in your lives. Were were you on Bloody Sunday in Glasgow for the last number of years when the Irish community were being assaulted by loyalist knuckledraggers? And there BNP and NF pals? Your are telling porkies to the ‘World Socialist Movement’ – tell them about Bloody Sunday in Glasgow?
Crawl back under your bridge, troll
Hi Frank,
It’s true that SSY hasn’t had a presence on the Bloody Sunday marches. Tbh, I personally wasn’t aware they took place until it was announced by someone as taking place the next day on the SDL march last Saturday.
But I don’t see how that means we haven’t done anything to stop fascists in our lives. Does not being on one march invalidate the work you do to build and participate on another?
The core of the SDL are loyalists. Fascism in Scotland since the 20s with Billy Fullerton and Cormack has always had a close inter-relationship with loyalism/unionism. In the 70s/80s Bill Campbell,Scottish UVF Commander and uncle of Jason who nearly decapitated Celtic fan Mark Scott, was involved with the NF. Adair in Troon was a NF skinhead as were a lot of the younger UDA.
In the 80s the BNP attempted to recruit and propagandise in Scotland using the stock racism they used in Engerland, but within 6 months, their lack of success meant they gravitated quickly to anti Catholic anti Republican propaganda in order to grow- which they did. Stopped by the anti fascism of the working class and the good work of Red Action/AFA.
SSY should link up with Irish and Scottish Republicans against British imperialism, unionism, loyalism and fascism. Come to Republican marches.
Nice patronising article ya bunch of fucking losers.
I’ll quote someone elses opinion on this here:
“What a load of infantile bollox that so-called report from ‘Scottish Socialist Yoof’ is…
From the SSP school of wannabe prole journalism…. did Colin “Robin Hood” Fox write that himself, or was it some other moron?
What a load of shite and what a patronising crappy way to write it… is this how they think the ‘proles’ speak and write?
Fuck those lefty c@nts as well. They turn up at these things to sing songs and wave placards, nothing else.”
You lot are a fucking embarrasment to be honest, and it’s cringeworthy reading your ridiculous shite. I know you’re the “Youth Wing” but fuck me, grow up. This sort of shite doesn’t present the SSP or any of you lot in a good light. It will give your trendy lefty pals in the UAF a chuckle over their fairtrade coffee in the morning though, and other than those trendy arseholes, that’s about it.
greg… fuck off.
i couldn’t care less what the armchair antifa clowns on the TAL forum think.
“Armchair”… That would be some of the same people who actually did engage in proper militancy against the far right. I’ve yet to see the working class foot soldiers of the SSP kicking fascists up and down the street. You all wait til the polis are out and chant away from the safety of a cordon. The SDL would run amok through 5 times their number of studenty-left types pal, make no mistake.
Anyway, regardless of the quote I posted, what I say still stands. It’s a fucking unfunny, nigh-on insulting piece of primary school journalism. See if that was a group of Jamaican people in Bristol or somewhere, I doubt oor Lydia would be indulging herself writing in an overblown patois style of writing would she, as that would be considered perhaps a tad on the racist side, but it’s okay to bastardise working class Glasgow folk in the name of a laugh. I wouldn’t have a problem if it was actually well written, but unfortunately, it’s just gash.
Your gash.
I know “LydiaTeapot” (shes not using her real name cos she prefers not to.) and she comes from a deprived area, shes not putting any act on.
And if you actually read the article, and most of the stuff we’ve written about the SDL on this site you’d know we have pretty serious differences wi UAF.
Hi Greg,
I’m sorry that you think we’re not real anti-fascists for not being as in to fighting as you are. We had a strategy of mass direct action-we organised a strategy of trying to get thousands of people to occupy the street so that the SDL weren’t able to. This successfully prevented them from having any kind of static demo on the street. I didn’t go there looking to kick the shit out of people. Self defence is no offence-that’s one thing, a position I support. But the last thing we need if we’re going to convince the mass of the working class to turn away from racism is to be perceived as a bunch of thugs, and no better than the SDL.
I want to know when people are getting to get over the idea that saying “You’re not very hard” amounts to a political criticism. First of all, it’s far from true of all of us-there are genuinely people that grew up around violence. But I’m not one of them. That doesn’t mean I’m really bourgeois or out of touch with the working class. I won’t be made to feel ashamed that I’m not particularly good at fighting. I’m not a pacifist, but I’m also not one of the juvenile lefties that gets a hard on thinking about violence.
And, to second what Andy said, you think you know “Lydia”. You clearly don’t, you’ve never spoke to her, you don’t know where she’s from or what she’s like. Basically, you’re talking out your arse.
I never said anyone wasn’t an anti fascist for no fighting, nor did I say I was out fighting. Liam T was referring to some people with a proven record in kicking these cunts off the street as “armchair antifa clowns” which is well off the mark. There’s a place for most anti fascists, and my main point was about how shite the article was, which nobody has addressed. How can I be talking out of my arse when I’m saying that the article was poorly written and executed? I never said I knew Lydia either. I still think the article is a joke. It’s not only me either, a few of my pals have seen it as well and concur that it’s a pretty condescending article in the way it’s trying to connect. This is an SSP website, no a Bebo page.
Jack, if you or anyone wants to convince the mass working class of anything, maybe in future articles shouldn’t be written like this because it’s no the sort of pish that wins over any new support. It’s the equivalent of David Cameron being down with the kids by visiting schools with a baseball cap on backwards, regardless of the age of the person writing it. In any case, the mass working class are not racist, as you have suggested, but they are definitely alienated by the socialist parties in this country. I say that as a member of one. I remember guys at the anti SDL demo in Glasgow getting called out as fascists by your lot because the knee jerk reaction to anyone who dresses in casual gear is that they must be right wing, as opposed to anti fascists who don’t feel the need to dress in stereotypical lefty/student style clothes. Being a bit more accepting of who your allies are, as well as recognising there is more than one way to fight your enemies is very important.
I know though, I’m talking shite so just disregard what I’ve said…
By the way, if you’re not about fighting, don’t title an article “Square Go…”
a couple of points, just to clarify… SSY is not UAF, so I’m not quite sure who you’re referring to as ‘your lot’, and nor did were we the ones (allegedly) shouting abuse at a group of anti-fascists on the basis of what they were wearing.
we’ve been working inside Glasgow Anti-Fascist Alliance.. which is a very broad group including folk from the Anarchist Federation, FRFI, SSP/SSY, IWCA, lots of unaffiliated folk, and, shock horror, even a few folk fae the green brigade.
the only place i saw solidarity on Nov 14th was in a park on the same platform as the tories, mohammed sarwar and nicola stureon, but I digress…
anyway, as well as this slightly tongue in cheek write-up (which went down really well with most folk.. see the post on indymedia scotland for instance), we did put up one more serious in tone, which you’re welcome to have a read of and let us know your thoughs.
Hi Greg,
Nice to see you trying to be a wee bit more conciliatory, as opposed to opening a post with “ya bunch of fucking losers.”
“I never said anyone wasn’t an anti fascist for no fighting,”
(In earlier comment) “engage in proper militancy against the far right. I’ve yet to see the working class foot soldiers of the SSP kicking fascists up and down the street. You all wait til the polis are out and chant away from the safety of a cordon. The SDL would run amok through 5 times their number of studenty-left types pal, make no mistake.”
Now if that isn’t trying to say “you’re shite because you’re not as hard as us,” then I don’t know what it is trying to say.
The reason I said you’re talking out your arse is that you have this imaginary vision of a middle class student sitting making something up to look cool/take the piss out of working class Glaswegians. That’s just crazy, and I really don’t know what you think would be our motivation for doing that.
The young woman that wrote this isn’t a student, is working class and is Glaswegian. She does actually speak Scots. You’re of course entitled to your opinion, and if you and your pals don’t like it fair enough. But what I object to is the idea that you think this was done by someone that would never talk this way, that you think you know people who you’ve never met. You’ve come on here being really aggressive and unpleasant, but more importantly you’ve shown your own ignorance about who you’re talking to.
“regardless of the age of the person writing it.”
Nobody said anything about age mate, we’re talking about class.
I didn’t say that the mass of the working class are racist, but racist ideas have a powerful resonance in our society, as seen through a resurgence of far right organisations, the state of the debate about immigration, the way people talk about muslims etc etc. What ultimately we’re trying to do here is to make sure that the working class reject these ideas completely, which is what I meant by “turn away from”.
“I remember guys at the anti SDL demo in Glasgow getting called out as fascists by your lot because the knee jerk reaction to anyone who dresses in casual gear is that they must be right wing, as opposed to anti fascists who don’t feel the need to dress in stereotypical lefty/student style clothes.”
I was there at the incident you’re describing. Not only were the people calling that out NOT members of the SSP/SSY, it was an SSP comrade that talked them down and said they were wrong, because he recognised the guy from the football! Just ignore me though, probably another one of those middle class students that has no idea about working class Glaswegians.
“Being a bit more accepting of who your allies are, as well as recognising there is more than one way to fight your enemies is very important.”
That’s a bit rich from someone who’s come on to the website of fellow anti-fascists/socialists just to be aggressive and a general prick!
Also btw, no, this isn’t a bebo page, it’s the Leftfield blog, a publication that has never been 100% serious. Some of the things here are about having a bit of fun. The article in question started life as a facebook update, and then got posted here because so many people liked it. So you think that it’s badly written or whatever. Fine. But don’t try and that was the substance of what you were saying, cos it wasn’t. Most of your posts have just been general insults on the author (who you don’t know) and SSY members in general. These insults have been that we’re all “middle class students” and that we’re not up for fighting the SDL because we’re all middle class weaklings basically. Whatever.
“remember guys at the anti SDL demo in Glasgow getting called out as fascists by your lot because the knee jerk reaction to anyone who dresses in casual gear is that they must be right wing, as opposed to anti fascists who don’t feel the need to dress in stereotypical lefty/student style clothes.”
Ok well I don’t know anyone from ‘our lot’ who did that, so maybe you’re conflating SSY members (and I doubt you could point any of us out on the street so I don’t really know where you’re getting all this from) with ‘all those lefty student lot’ as if that’s as much of a homogenous group as you’re trying to make out we’re saying ‘all people in casual clothes are fascists’ are (which we’re not, you’re just making that up).
Funny blog titles.. we also have one called ‘think of the weans for fucks sake’ about a teachers union demo to try to save schools, and ‘islamogeddon cancelled’ about anjem choudary.. it’s just a title. If you must know this one actually was written on someone’s facebook as a post to amuse their friends who were there and it was so good and so many people were impressed by the skill of it that we decided to put it up on the blog. Apart from being funny and well written it’s also a detailed account of what went on during the day for a lot of us, by a Glasgwegian and yes that actually is how the author talks. Sometimes we can choose to write in English, sometimes we can choose to write in Scots, and sometimes we can mix the two together. That’s the choice that being bilingual offers you, it’s not ‘offensive’ to choose to sometimes write in a way that’s instantly recognisable to your peers. It’s completely incomparable to talk about a white person who has never been to Jamaica going and writing in patois, this is written by someone who actually speaks this way. I’ve chosen to write this comment in English because it’s what I’m used to typing. If I were to write a transcript of me actually speaking this out loud it’d be very different. Sorry that the article is not to your tastes, but it wasn’t really written for you. Thanks, bye.
Lol, canny beat a wee bit of point scoring between the parties, eh? I wasn’t hobnobbing down at the green with any of they scumbags mate, it’s no my scene. I’d only been in the party a week or so at that point by the way, but I don’t think involving myself with them or any other Socialist party in this country is doing me any favours, nor is party business anything like I thought it would be so I think that along with chocolate and fizzy juice, it’s going to be a late addition to my abstinence list for Lent and thereafter. Anyway, I digress
So you were working with the “armchair antifa clowns” after all then?
I’ve read the other article, it is what it is, but this one is still pish.
“remember guys at the anti SDL demo in Glasgow getting called out as fascists by your lot because the knee jerk reaction to anyone who dresses in casual gear is that they must be right wing, as opposed to anti fascists who don’t feel the need to dress in stereotypical lefty/student style clothes.”
I was at Glasgow Green when a guy wi a skinhead and wearing boots was booed by someone and called a nazi, and then James Nesbitt from SSY told her to stop and that he was an antifa. I dont know if the woman booing him was UAF/SWP, but she wasn’t SSY.
Author here.
@Greg.
Right, so it’s shite. We, in the serious writing community would enjoy constructive criticism. If you’re not willing to offer it, then I’ll disregard your comment as something not useful to me in the slightest. So come up to trumps with improvement suggestions (Also, I’d like to see some of your own creative writing, since you’re obviously very experienced, and I could perhaps learn from you.) At the end of the day, you can try to be hurtful, but it’s not like I go to bed at night crying because of it. you’re just proving you’re out to be elitist and horrible. If you honestly want a better world, which I assume you do because you’re anti-fascist, then a key element would to stop being nasty to people. Especially people who did nothing to you. Let’s face it, you’ve literally went out of your way to read the article and then comment on it. No one forced you to. If you weren’t looking for a fight, you would have just went (in your head) “Fucking shite,” and left the page. But no, you made the effort to try and be distinctly nasty to me. Is putting people down what you’re aiming to do? Because on the internet it doesn’t really work that way. When i close my laptop, you stop existing.
Also, I don’t really care if you’re a hard man. No one really does. People have different ways of doing things. Let me tell you; if you punch a fascist in the face it will do nothing more than what we’ve done peacefully. What do you think will happen? Do you think that acting like a thug will make ‘em think twice next time? You’re not Batman. So you go punch as many people as you like – Allow us to go about our own business. This is besides the point, but do you honestly think your jagged comments on our blog is going to bring a violent turn around to SSY? No. It really, really won’t. So don’t bother, you’re wasting your time.
Finally; the “Square go” part of the title? It was a joke. A ha-ha joke. Didn’t think it was funny? My feelings remain unhurt.
-Lydia.
(Leftfield, the socialist fanzine that mocks the poor.)
I get the feeling you’re backing down a bit now because you realised you were being a knobend before.
Its very hard to distinguish between the UAF/SWP students and the SSY ones, same kind of look, same kind of accents etc etc Attempts at being working class- could do better. 5 out of 10.
At Edinburgh we had to laugh at the two SSY members having a spliff whilst attempting to hold the banner. They were almost horizontal and how we laughed at the shouty students when 5 SDL sailed right through your ranks and they all went very quiet and moved away enmasse. Try the gym and some fighting skills if you want to be antifascist militants.
fiananananananananananananahalba, fuck off and stop trolling our site, you’re very boring and no one cares
Shouty students and swearing oh im shocked. Getting awfy territorial there, ok i wont bother winding youse up. Stay in your student politics sandpit.
Yeah have fun touching yourself over shooting Dominos delivery men, bye.
How is building the left on the basis of insulting people and pretending to be prolier than thou going Ian? Got a huge mass organisation behind you, have you?
I’ll say it again in another way: a left that makes fighting skills a prerequisite is only going to ever recruit macho guys and is going nowhere. A fascination with violence is not healthy, and does not take us towards the kind of society we want to build.
People like you putting across madcap politics ensure the right will stay in power.
You really don’t have any concept of reality, you twit. You’ve never even met me and you think you can pass judgement. Fucking roaster.
How do you know folk smoking weed holding a banner were SSY Ian? Most folk from ours on the demo were disciplined enough to keep their heads on, particularly when we had to outmanouevre the police outside the Bank Bar.
A while ago I read your comments on an article a while ago when the SDL had declared they were going to march and you thought they would be stronger than the antifascist side, and we would be weaker. Of course now we know that there was an even bigger victory in Edinburgh than in Glasgow. I don’t see any political content in your arguments besides attacks on someone as “middle class” when in fact the person who wrote the article is a young woman from a working class area.
What would you have done differently building on the day Ian? And what happens if you aren’t good at fighting – are you still allowed to be an anti-fascist?
Also, whats with the idea that if somebody is a student they are automatically middle class, useless and not ‘militant’ enough? Fuck off. I don’t see what you’re trying to achieve here fiannanahalba. You said that you just want to have a debate about things, which is healthy, but you’re just consistently acting like a dick.
Working class people cannae seek an education; didn’t you know?!
Andy it was an SSY banner, so it would most likely be SSY holding it? The police stopped the EDL/SDL to a greater extent than what was mobilised. Or are you suggesting that the operation was off the cuff when they saw the anti fascist demo? Im sorry but its dangerous if anyone believes the anti fascists could have driven off the fash with no police presence on the scale they were out. I concede the left got decent numbers out and the fash were below what i expected, but as i said they were severely disrupted by the police.
Sarah they killed who they intended to kill, the pizza guys are ok.
Jack only ever heard that expression from middle class lefts, if the cap fits…. So you think socialism can be achieved by non violent means exclusively? Do you just shout at fascists when behind police lines? Will they always be there to protect the left? As for what ive got behind me, im sure you can get that info easily enough on the net. Whats madcap about organising collectively but realising there are different roles for comrades? And is your brand doing so well? We could at least have a dialogue around programme and methods? Im trying to see what the SSY could give to republican youth.
Liam- students are often working class but im sure youd agree that student life and politics is often lifestylism and a conveyor belt into the middle class professions. Im trying to build amongst the non student working class- amongst workers and the unemployed because i still believe that the workplace and the working class community is where we will build the forces necessary for the defeat of capitalism and its state.
Lynsey of course they can and the ruling class has always wanted a more educated working class and has for a long time allowed entry to HE to a section of working class youth.
Iain, how old are you?
Ian the SSY doesn’t have a banner. The SSP does, and given the amount of running about folk were doing carrying it I seriously doubt anyone would be able to do it stoned.
You talk about discussion on programme and methods but I dont know what else we could have done differently. The facts are most people on the Left are like most normal people – they don’t go out and get into fights all the time and they dont actively seek getting into them the way some of the fascists might do.
This is because folk round about and in the SDL are asocial nutters who often dont have the basic respect for other folk most working people have and dont see anything unacceptable about living your life fighting wi folk all the time. Different people have different roles and you need to accept that the majority of folk who go on anti fascist demos probably arent psychos like the SDL, and make sure you have the numbers so if they try anything physical they wont win. I think weve successfully done that on both occasions.
Go on enlighten me. This is a space for SSY comrades between 16-26 etc etc- tell you what there are 18 year olds with the political heads of much older comrades on their shoulders and of course theres older comrades who are immature. Its not an issue – if youre good enough you re old enough.
[NOTE ADDED BY ADMIN: This is incorrect - SSY has no minimum age limit, under 16 year olds can and do participate in SSY.]
Andy it was a decent mobilisation and it was certainly the kind of action needed- compared to UAF/SWP/Scotland United- very good. I sincerely hope a strong unified socialist movement can arise again quickly in Scotland and the SSY could be important yeast in that process. Anti fascism anti racism and a republican socialist pro independence vision are just some important strands in that development and regroupment. There are big lessons to be learned from our shared past. Scotland is a small country where we are literally only one or two people removed from knowing each other or at least knowing of each other and you can magnify that 100 times in the left millieu. Perhaps we will see the development of a movement that is democratic and pluralist working together on the 80% agreement and fraternally debating the other 20%. When it comes to Scottish independence, anti imperialism, anti fascism/racism and working class issues theres lots of room for socialists, republicans, anarchists and other progressives to develop joint work.
Now given the nature of the net and the lack of face to face discussion, blogs like this allow for debate and indeed criticisms of each others politics- thats not a bad thing and can, whilst being a bit at times sharp and polemical as well as sometimes rude and piss taking, it can also let us see where people are politically coming from.
I think the SSY comes out of a tradition of outward looking and innovative socialist politics so im happy to discuss my politics and those of the two organisations of which iam a member the 32CSM and SRSM with the SSY/SSP, something the brit left groups are mostly incapable of.
“This is a space for SSY comrades between 16-26 etc etc- tell you what there are 18 year olds with the political heads of much older comrades on their shoulders and of course theres older comrades who are immature. Its not an issue – if youre good enough you re old enough.”
Except that its an issue for us. What you’ve said here shows that you (still) don’t get the purpose of SSY. It’s not some political training ground to groom us until we’re ready to play with the older children; SSY is an autonomous, self-organising youth group in the same vein as the SSP Women’s Network. We recognise that young people are discriminated against in Scotland today, and that we need a space to ourselves to discuss and fight our own battles against that discrimination, and to provide a space for political activity that is exclusively for young people.
I really do have to ask, what is the obsession with us? You’ve been coming on our forums and blogs to pick fights and call people middle class students for years, and you’ve been getting told to piss off for years. What is it about us?
fiannanahalba – Right so, we, according to you, wouldn’t stand a chance against the fash if the police weren’t there. Okay. Okay. Here is my problem with that statement:
1) The police aren’t just going to dissapear. They are almost always going to be there. The end of the world isn’t nigh, mate.
2) What’s you point? What are you insinuating? That we should all arm ourselves with shotguns and just blow their brains out? Are you suggesting that because we aren’t megabots with lasers coming out of our eyes that we should just quit?
3) Neither would you.
4) We have never pulled out of a march if we doubted police presence.
Let me try to make this clear to you: You aren’t any different from us. If anyone’s being an elitist cunt, it’s you. Are you trying to tell us that you would go ahead with seven fash yourself? Tell you what, you tell me when it’s happening and we’ll come see you chib ‘em aw maaaaan, since you’re like a bajillion times more working class than us.
Lynsey i think my previous post attempts to answer your question. The SSY are associated closely with the SSP, therefore they are or should be of interest to all Scottish socialists, irrespective of age. It appears you have no interest in discussing or debating with me and thats been the case in all my experience of you at least since a few debates a good while ago on the SSP forum, fair enough your choice, although to be fair to the SSY and to their credit three or four posters, and i expect SSY members, do engage in discussion – that has given me a clearer understanding of the politics of the SSY on issues such as race/multiculturalism and the EDL and fascism and the SSY analysis and method of combatting it.
LydiaT im not so sure the EDL/SDL are more than capable of mobilising without police being informed or aware. Thats a tactic that they hold inreserve but one that im sure they now feel more confident of using when its tactically advantageous to them.
I cant see the SSY having any need or desire to hold anything more than a placard, a leaflet or paper.
On 3. of course.
On 4 thats probably true although what happened when the NF had their meeting in Glasgow recently? Youse wisely looked at the balance of forces and the possibility of violence and didnt go to their meeting place. Im no fool and certainly not advocating taking action that could result in the left/republicans etc getting seriously hurt or arrested.
I dont think im elitist, although i do believe theres a place for tactical flexibility and actions undertaken and carried out by certain comrades eg during the miners strike, the workers who carried out sabotage against scabs and scab haulage companies etc
I feel I should point out that in previous comment debates about multiculturalism etc. what I posted represented my own views rather than debated and agreed positions of SSY. I’m hoping that these kinds of debates can go a bit further at Camp Secret Squirrel and if EAFA/GAFA agree to hold a conference, which I’ll propose at the open meeting on Sat.
I think the problem here is that you seem to have a split personality in posting. Often you’ll open a discussion with what are, frankly, apolitical (and often inaccurate) insults about SSY members, their class background, the way they speak and dress etc. Then when this gets people riled up (presumably what you were trying to achieve anyway), you try and back away, and say you’re just interested in healthy debate, you’re the reasonable one etc. You can’t have it both ways. You say you want fraternal debate but your behaviour indicates otherwise.
On the issue of violence, I’ll state it again-I’m not a pacifist. I believe in the position “self-defence is no offence”. One of the first things that helped get me political was an awareness of the case of Satpal Ram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satpal_Ram). However, I also don’t believe in fetishising violence, and indeed think that this is a major problem with many sections of the left. Tactics need to be judged on the situation, and imo SSY members, as part of GAFA and EAFA, have deployed the right tactics for the situation against the SDL (albeit more effectively in Edinburgh, having learnt from the experience in Glasgow.) Going out looking for a fight would have been the WRONG tactics in these situations.
Violence is a serious business, and when it’s necessary it’s not something to be gloried in. I was recently listening to a documentary about the history of anti-fascist organising in London in the 70s (which I intend to post here when I can make the getiplayer thing work). In that situation, with gangs of racists roaming the streets at night looking to attack people, self defence training and an organised street presence were clearly necessary. (Although btw that was always accompanied with mass mobilisations to occupy the streets.) That’s not the situation we’re in right now.
What’s completely unhelpful and infantile is people coming on to go “you middle class students aren’t as hard as us.” It’s fantasising about violence, and doesn’t take us any further forward in terms of serious politics.
I know violence is a serious business Jack, ive got two friends in Maghaberry looking at twenty years each. Just be honest, the majority of socialists in the disUK are opposed to violence and believe that only mass action and propaganda can bring socialism. For m y part i believe the working class will need to deploy a degree of organised and disciplined violence in its twin tasks of socialist revolution and national liberation, not to mention self defence and internal security, when faced with the uncomprimising and extremely coercive and violent imperialist British state.